Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Shaheen Jafargholi

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Keep. He's not as notable as Susan Boyle, but he does have a career outside his appearance on Britain's Got Talent. - Brian Kendig (talk) 19:46, 27 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Shaheen Jafargholi[edit]

Shaheen Jafargholi (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View log)

Notability concerns. Unlike Susan Boyle last week, Jafargholi has not made worldwide headlines, so this I really don't think satisfies notability guidelines, BLP1E could be applied as well. D.M.N. (talk) 13:31, 20 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

  • Delete Whilst both Susan Boyle and Shaheen Jafargholi do fall under WP:BLP1E, the worldwide attention Boyle has received resulted in an exception being made to the BLP1E guideline for her. Jafargholi hasn't received such attention, and I therefore do not believe this article should be granted an exception as well. I hold no prejudice against starting up another article on him if coverage increases in the future to warrant that. [[User:JEdgarFreeman|JEdgarFr(talk) 13:55, 20 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete. Non-notable. WP:BLP1E, and the 1E isn't even very remarkable (he sang well on a reality TV show). - Brian Kendig (talk) 17:27, 20 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Merge. Worth an honourable mention in Britain's Got Talent (series 3) as there are enough good references to justify its inclusion. Definitely not worth having his own article though. 78.133.77.127 (talk) 18:46, 20 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Note: This debate has been included in the list of Actors and filmmakers-related deletion discussions. -- — LinguistAtLarge • Talk  15:42, 20 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete A one event personality if I can put it that way. Agree with JEdgarFreeman that I hold no prejudice against starting up another article on him if coverage increases in the future to warrant that.--Paste Let’s have a chat. 19:58, 20 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    • In the light of the comments below 'one event' would not seem to be applicable but certainly coverage, whilst extensive, does seem to relate to his appearance on Britain's Got Talent (series 3) almost exclusively. I question whether there was any element of notability prior to this appearance.--Paste Let’s have a chat. 11:50, 23 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep, comparable to Boyle in my view. —Nightstallion 21:24, 20 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    • In what way, may I ask? Boyle has received extraordinary attention around the world to the extent that the article on her received an exemption from the WP:BLP1E guideline. Jafargholi's performance, and this isn't meant as a slur, has met a reaction typical of people who sing well on the type of show he performed in; great support from the long-term audience of the show, and some national attention, but nothing like the gathering around the planet that Boyle has garnered. JEdgarFreeman (talk) 23:41, 20 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete Ditto Paste 's comments. SunCreator (talk) 02:23, 21 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep, Why not check how many people visit the wiki article and base the decision on that. I wanted to find out more about this person hence visited wikipedia. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 60.242.247.126 (talk) 04:14, 21 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    • That's just as bad - if not worse - than bean counting AfD votes. People's interest does not automatically imply notability. S@lo (talk) 06:46, 21 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete Hasn't achieved enough notability. Susan Boyle was only famous for one event as well, but as others have mentioned, the immense impact that she's had worldwide (based on the thousands of news articles that have been written about her) makes her an exception to the rule. S@lo (talk) 06:40, 21 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep: We have added 5 independent references to prove notability of Shaheen Jafargholi as requested. CNN also talked about the boy for many times posing him as the main rival to Susan Boyle. He is notable as some also questioned the whole issue of amateur vs professional participants, as it was revealed later that Shaheen did have professional work earlier. WE added a note aboyt that on his profile as well werldwayd (talk) 15:42, 21 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete per nom. Boyle is a rare exception to 1E because of how famous that one event made her. Jafargholi, not so much (what about the bloke who did "Somewhere" on the sax?) Sceptre (talk) 17:38, 21 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete all the few sources were all published within the same few days and are all about the same event, making it a WP:BLP1E.--Otterathome (talk) 20:48, 21 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Provisional Keep I'm willing to hear arguments either way, but while he no doubt got an entry because of his performance on "Britain Has Talent" I don't see how his entry can be deleted under WP:BLP1E. He has performed professionally both as a singer and as an actor and has an entry in IMDB. Some might consider this insufficient, but again it certainly isn't a single event. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Abcarter (talk • contribs) 22:55, 21 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep This page gives info to know more about this boy, which is not found anywhere. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.167.128.251 (talk) 22:59, 21 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    • This is not a valid reason to keep; many articles have been deleted even though they were probably been the best sources of info for the subject on the Net. JEdgarFreeman (talk) 10:05, 22 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete as some of the reasons above have given, Susan Boyle is a unique case. The worldwide attention of her has not been matched by another Britain's Got Talent entrant. I fear if we accept this article too then a precedent will be created for ALL notable reality competitors at the audition stages, regardless of what they go on to do. Dundedia (talk) 00:05, 22 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep. If wikipedia can have articles on consumer food products, this article (well sourced), is just as worthy of inclusion. HOWEVER, it could benefit from some decent cleanup to meet "our" standards. Schmidt, MICHAEL Q. 06:03, 22 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    • DeleteWP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS; just because other articles of what you consider to be similar claims to notability exist, doesn't mean this one should. Jafargholi is a one-event person, atm. So is Boyle, but the attention she has garnered is extraordinary and warranted an exception to WP:BLP1E. JEdgarFreeman (talk) 10:03, 22 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
      • No, my point was that there is a strange dichotomy in what some consider notable and others do not, and this sense of WP:IDONTLIKEIT needs be considered. Point here is that this fellow is not WP:ONEEVENT, as he was receiving acknowledgement for his stage work long before Got Talent diff. Schmidt, MICHAEL Q. 18:58, 22 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete per the discussed reason. Susan Boyle just about qualifies, but is the exception to the rule. 81.153.219.75 (talk) 12:08, 22 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete Susan Boyle is a phenomenal Internet success, Shaheen Jafargholi is not. Delete for being non-notable. Tovojolo (talk) 12:09, 22 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Keep what is the point of having a page taken down when it will be remade in a few weeks anyway? Keep for a a pathetic nomination. He isn't American, is that the problem? Andrew RACK 15:45, 22 April 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Koshoes (talk • contribs)

We can't assume he will be more than a one-event personality, as per WP:CRYSTAL. Plus, nationality isn't anything to do with my delete !vote. I'm English, actually. Plus, your description of this nomination as "pathetic" is extremely uncivil. JEdgarFreeman (talk) 15:59, 22 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    • What I was trying to say was there are a lot of un-notable American people on this site. Someone the whole of the UK have heard of was, maybe tagged by an American who didn't have a clue who he was. He is actually more notable then some make out, and has been in more then one event, so that does not classify him under WP:ONEEVENT. If you dont see my point, see Ken Binns. A bloke called AndrewConvosMy Messies 15:39, 26 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep, seems to have been known before this and been mentioned by the media for acting in numerous television shows and switching on Christmas lights? Surely enough to beat WP:EVENT? And hardly comparable therefore to Susan Boyle who is more recent? Or has all that just been added? I'm somewhat alarmed at the idea put forth by Tovojolo that someone can be deleted for not being "a phenomenal Internet success". --candle•wicke 18:21, 22 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: Right now the article contains only one short paragraph about this person's musical career outside Britain's Got Talent. Those of you who assert that he is independently notable might do well to expand on that paragraph, with references. - Brian Kendig (talk) 21:15, 22 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Note: This debate has been included in the list of Living people-related deletion discussions. --Erwin85Bot (talk) 00:09, 23 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep Candelwicke hinted at this in his post, but it should be emphasized: Shaheen's celebrity is not solely due to one event. The case can certainly be made that he is most notable from Britain's Got Talent. However he has performed at other notable events. The article page lists some of these: "Shaheen has previously acted in television shows Casualty, Torchwood and Grandpa In My Pocket, all on the BBC. Shaheen has also toured on stage as a young Michael Jackson in Thriller Live.[4] He also featured in BBC documentary Starstruck, where cameras followed him for six months. He switched on the Christmas lights in Swansea city centre in front of 30,000 people.[5]" The last mentioned event seems to be associated with celebrities. Thus 1E does not apply to this case.--Agha Nader (talk) 01:48, 23 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    It is expected that the closing nom will rightly disregard any such delete opinions as being unsupportablein light of all evidence that he is most assuredly not WP:ONEEVENT. Schmidt, MICHAEL Q. 06:23, 23 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • 'Delete "He is a good singer, but not a notable one." The article does not meet Wikipedia's notability guidelines for musicians. He is a mere contestant that has been covered in minimal sources. Alex Douglas (talk) 08:46, 23 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: Just a thought, but it seems to me, rather than discussing whether this meets Wikipedia's notability guidelines, with Boyle being an exception and Shaheen being in the public eye before Britain's got talent - yet still being debated, maybe we should be discussing clarification of the notability guidelines themselves? Musicmantham 11:40, 23 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep I'm not a Wikipedia regular or expert, but I came to the site for information on the kid, and noticed it was in dispute, and decided to have a look. So, as an average Joe (work: unix sysadmin; play: local musician), my two cents... MTV has reported on him (http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1609565/20090420/index.jhtml), Entertainment Weekly has reported on him (http://hollywoodinsider.ew.com/2009/04/shaheen-jafargh.html). He's got an IMDB entry, as someone else has pointed out. The event which got us talking was his *audition*, not his only performance, so unless an anvil falls on him, we'll be seeing a lot of him in the weeks to come. I fear a sense of short-sightedness is surrounding this. Seems strange to argue against Susan Boyle's inclusion, for the same reasoning. If there's an entry for Puck from the Real World, surely there can't be an argument against either of these two bona-fide entertainers? Why is it even an issue? Coordinatezero (talk) 12:27, 23 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong Keep Have just added Coordinatezero's 2 references and tidied up the page a little. I can see why the page was nominated, but now its been improved 1E clearly doesnt apply, we have abundant coverage in reliable secondary sources and we're getting thousands of hits per day on the page. FeydHuxtable (talk) 18:17, 23 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
The number of hits on the article doesn't matter. (How are you counting the hits, anyway?) All that matters is whether the subject is "significant, interesting, or unusual enough to deserve attention or to be recorded" (WP:BIO). - Brian Kendig (talk) 18:53, 23 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
The specific guideline for singers, WP:MUSIC says a person or band is worthy of being included (notable) if it meets any one of the following criteria: "1.Has been the subject of multiple non-trivial published works" So the kid easilly passes by the first measure. We are allowed to take popularity into account to, I got the hit stats by going to the history page where there's a 'page view statitics' link near the top of the screen. FeydHuxtable (talk) 10:56, 25 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep Evidently notable for his own performances. WP:BLP1E is therefore quite inapplicable, being intended for those who are caught up in some larger event by happenstance. Colonel Warden (talk) 11:23, 25 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete His talent has only been noticed because of the popularity of Susan Boyle, which has then made the show more popular. Also, as previously mentioned he has not made worldwide news. Simply, one of the better acts, of one show. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.233.202.170 (talk) 11:49, 25 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong Delete --89.242.30.151 (talk) 15:36, 26 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak keep, per Abcarter. I'm unconvinced that WP:BLP1E applies here, as although the article's creation may have been triggered by one event the article's subject is notable outwith that one event - he's appeared on Casualty and Torchwood, amongst other major UK TV shows. Cheers, This flag once was redpropagandadeeds 15:46, 26 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep He'll get a recording contract out of this and end up fairly famous, not to mention the fact that he's already an actor and will probably keep with that. There are already far less notable people about whom articles are written on WP. Kether83 (talk) 07:53, 27 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep He is notable even if we ignore BGT and the small roles he had in Torchwood and Casualty etc. He plays an important role in Grandpa In My Pocket and toured at least 3 countries with the concert Thriller Live. The BBC Wales documentary Starstruck could add to that notability as well (depending on how much of it is focused on Jafargholi). He meets WP:ENTERTAINER: "Has had significant roles in multiple notable films, television, stage performances, or other productions". - Mgm|(talk) 08:19, 27 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Merge to the series article, but do not keep. Stifle (talk) 08:57, 27 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong Keep Shaheen is very much talked about at the moment, and many people like to know more about his background. For the moment, I see no reason to delete an article that has so many references and quite a good quality.

Conclusion[edit]

As a conclusion to this discussion, as many people are interested in this article, and as many others put a lot of effort in it, I removed the DELETION-Sign and close the discussion for now. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.197.21.80 (talk) 15:53, 27 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

...and I put it back. Please leave the tag in place until this AfD is closed. Cheers, This flag once was redpropagandadeeds 15:58, 27 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
...OK, I thought there has been enough discussion, so let's keep on and discuss ourselves to death instead of writing articles. ... Well, an offer for all those who want to delete Shaheen: The second argument has been: "Well, we could start a new article if interest in him stays alive". But the all information has to be re-written and re-researched. What about keeping the article and delete it in 6 month, if no interest will be in the article then?
Why do you so hardly want to delete this article about a boy who is already an actor and a singer, and now even widely-known due to Britain's Got Talent? It's one of britain's most favourite and most talked-about shows, and lot of viewers want to get background on the candidates as the show doesn't present any. Now you can either collect it from a lot of news sources, or you can go to wikipedia ... if it hasn't been plundered by wikipedia deletion activists. ;) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.197.21.80 (talk) 16:16, 27 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
There's nothing stopping any of us writing articles while this AfD continues, so far as I'm aware. And your points would be better made up above, where they can be taken into consideration by the editor who closes the AfD. Incidentally, if you bother to check my !vote, you'll see that I !voted keep. Cheers, This flag once was redpropagandadeeds 16:19, 27 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Ok, thanks. :) (And where the hell is the the TILDE on the MAC? ;) ) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.197.21.80 (talk) 16:24, 27 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Replied - it's Alt+n ;-) Cheers, This flag once was redpropagandadeeds 16:29, 27 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you man :) (still asking myself if a wikipedia account pays back if I edit only 3 to 4 pages a year -- but the first barrier ist taken now: ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ;) 85.197.21.80 (talk) 17:00, 27 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
by the way: Do you really think it's fair that shaheen has a deletion flag, and DJ Talent Doesn't? ;) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DJ_Talent ... well, nothing against DJ talent ... but compare him to Shaheen ... well, "life's not fair, is it?" ;) (Scar in The Lion King, 1994) 85.197.21.80 (talk) 17:05, 27 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
To be honest, I don't really think "fair" is relevant - anyone can submit any article to AfD, all it does is start a discussion. If the balance of the contributors to the discussion put forward good arguments for keeping the article, then it will be kept. You could, for example, propose DJ Talent's article for deletion, but it wouldn't necessarily result in a delete. It's all healthy - it gets more eyes on an article, and often helps the article improve. In this case I'd like to think that at the very least, editors who wouldn't otherwise know about Shaheen Jafargholi have learnt something about UK TV! Cheers, This flag once was redpropagandadeeds 17:10, 27 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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