Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/SS-Obermann

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. The argument that this is unverifiable (WP:V) is convincing. A Google Books search provides few hits, and none to German language sources; the cited reference (McNab, Chris (2009). The SS: 1923–1945. Amber Books Ltd. ISBN 978-1906626495. p. 30) does not seem to be available among the contributors to this discussion. Can be resurrected if better sourcing becomes available. Sandstein 06:48, 11 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

SS-Obermann[edit]

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Deutsch: Ich schlage diesen Artikel zu Löschung vor, da es zu keiner Zeit in der Schutzstaffel (SS) Nazideutschlands bis 1945 den SS-Rang oder die Rangbezeichnung “SS-Obermann“ oder “Obermann“ gegeben hat. Die Rangbeschreibung ist reine Phantasie.
English: I propose to delete this article, because the rank “SS-Obermann” or “Obermann” did never exist in the German Schutzstaffel (SS). It is purely a fantasy rank description.
Русский: Я предлагаю стирание текущой стадии, потому что свание “СС-Оберманн“ или “Оберманн“ никада не существовало в Немеций СС до 1945г. Обяснение ранга яавляеться чистой фантасией.
--HHaeckel (talk) 16:03, 3 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Military-related deletion discussions. Martynas Patasius (talk) 20:40, 3 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of History-related deletion discussions. Martynas Patasius (talk) 20:55, 3 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Germany-related deletion discussions. Northamerica1000^(talk) 04:04, 4 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Comment -- Well, if kept, the article needs to be re-written. I suggested this to the article's author since he has more detailed RS material as to the matter. It is listed in some works, but not others. The problem is that the SS would have titles and ranks, such as Reichsführer-SS, which was originally a title and later during 1934, became the highest rank of the SS. SS-Obermann is defined as basically meaning, "senior trooper"; similar to how SS-Stabsscharführer was used, as a title. So, it needs re-written or deleted in its present form. Kierzek (talk) 12:58, 4 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Delete for a lack of verifiability. Google scholar search shows three books that use the term, all in English. There is not one source that can show an original German document that uses the term. I think, it is possible that in a part of the overlapping, individual-centered organization of the SS some bureaucrat created that rank in the last two years of the war. But it is also possible that this term relays on an individual transcription fault, copied from one second-hand source to others. As this is not a core term to understand that organization and waging the risk of creating original fault articles I would delete it until someone can show up a reliable source. --Ben Ben (talk) 07:54, 6 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Comment -- It probably should be deleted at this point; a footnote could be added to the Mann article, if need be as to the matter. Kierzek (talk) 23:03, 6 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.