Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/S. Dotiwala

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. — JJMC89 (T·C) 23:21, 7 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

S. Dotiwala[edit]

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Another cricketer who fails to meet WP:GNG. This RfC has already confirmed that SSGs like WP:CRIN do not supersede the GNG. CricketArchive and Cricinfo statistical profiles, which can be regarded as trivial coverage per WP:SPORTBASIC, are not sufficient to establish notability. Dee 03 06:46, 31 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I am also nominating the following related pages because of the same reason:

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. Dee 03 06:46, 31 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Cricket-related deletion discussions. Dee 03 06:46, 31 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of India-related deletion discussions. Dee 03 06:46, 31 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Sri Lanka-related deletion discussions. Dee 03 06:46, 31 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - it will be interesting to find out when (if) the missing information comes to light, whether it will come to light individually, all at the same time, or team by team. Of course if it comes through individually, we can send each player to DRV one by one. I note that it took nine years for Christopher Theakstone's name and birthdate to come through. Bobo . 07:39, 31 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

If WP:SIGCOV is found for any of these players, you may recreate that article. We need more than the player's full name and DoB (if that's what you mean by "missing information") to satisfy GNG. Dee 03 08:48, 31 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Don't misinterpret my words again please. It's not funny. If reliable sources are found to verify the information, this information will be easily citable. Bobo . 08:51, 31 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I don't know what I misinterpreted there. Can you clarify what "missing information" you are referring to? Dee 03 08:55, 31 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I don't know what other information you would consider to be anything other than superfluous to the article other than the cricketer's biographical details. What other information are you expecting - the cricketer's shoe size? Bobo . 08:57, 31 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

As I have stated before in at least one other AfD, I am not expecting any extra information to be present in the article. The only requirement is meeting GNG. Dee 03 09:00, 31 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Which will be clearly covered if alternative reliable verifiable secondary sources are found. Bobo . 09:01, 31 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, provided it discusses the player in detail per SIGCOV. Dee 03 09:02, 31 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Finally you understand. Well done. Bobo . 09:03, 31 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Finally I made you understand. Well done to me. Dee 03 09:04, 31 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

That's not the issue and you know it. The issue is that we're questioning, after 14 years or more, CA and/or CI, as sole reliable sources. The fact that it took 14 years for anyone to bat an eyelid... Bobo . 09:08, 31 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

CI and CA profiles are database sources with low, wide-sweeping generic standards of inclusion according to SPORTBASIC. I don't see how that 14-year argument is relevant to any of this. "We've been doing something wrong for 14 years, let's continue to do it for another 14" is silly. Dee 03 09:14, 31 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

As I've stated above, it has taken 14 years for these issues to be questioned. I'm not saying it's right or wrong. I'm just saying that is what has happened. Bobo . 09:31, 31 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

It was many, many years until these guidelines you're referring to existed. SPORTBASIC as a shortcut has only existed for 2.5 years... Bobo . 09:15, 31 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Delete all These are not biographies. Per WP:WHYN "we require significant coverage in reliable sources so that we can actually write a whole article, rather than half a paragraph". I am not against a merge/redirect if appropriate targets can be identified.----Pontificalibus 09:06, 31 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Several of these cricketers played for teams much more established than Gwalior. If we're questioning whether a team such as Gwalior needs an article for List of Gwalior cricketers, I would make the argument that it makes sense to make lists of players for more established teams. Bobo . 09:49, 31 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect where sensible, otherwise delete. The lack biographical details and the limited cricketing history that we know about these blokes suggests that we're not going to be able to find the sorts of reliable, in depth sources we need to have to be able to write a sensible biography beyond a simple statistical analysis of their performance. If such sources are eventually forthcoming then the articles can be re-created with little bother: as it stands I think that's very unlikely to happen but it is certainly possible.

In terms of articles to redirect:

S. Dotiwala, S. Kothane, CN Haksar > List of Madhya Pradesh cricketers - these chaps played for predecessor MP teams and already have entries on the list.
SK Bahry > List of Uttar Pradesh cricketers - again, a predecessor team and already has an entry on the target list
V. J. Barai > List of Saurashtra cricketers - an incomplete list which needs some work, but there is an entry here
A. D. Khote > List of Maharashtra cricketers - an entry exists
A. K. Ganguli > List of Assam cricketers - an entry exists
NPR Vittal > List of Andhra cricketers - incomplete, but there is an entry here
T. S. Nahapiet > List of Bengal cricketers - entry exists
M. Asthana > List of Southern Punjab cricketers - possibly, although there's very little in that list and I would be perfectly happy with deletion in this case I think

There don't appear to any lists for the Sri Lankans. Blue Square Thing (talk) 14:36, 31 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I would gladly create/expand those lists, but as I've said, I'm frustrated enough already by this entire business... The initial creation of these lists only seems to exist in order to get a list of bluelinks... Perhaps one day if there were comprehensive lists of Sri Lankan cricketers in mainspace, these could be redirected appropriately too. Like I say, I'm too frustrated to do it myself. Bobo . 16:31, 31 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

If Gwalior and Holkar players are merged into the Madhya Pradesh list, it would make sense to merge Southern Punjab ones into Punjab as well, maybe by creating separate sections for players of Southern Punjab, Northern Punjab, Eastern Punjab and Patiala in List of Punjab cricketers (India). Dee 03 18:11, 31 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Northern Punjab would presumably include this game, which obviously, being 33 years before, had a completely different XI, and one Test cricketer. I wonder if it would be any use to go through pre-1947 match lists in India and finding first-class cricketers like Peter Perera from what I will refer to as "named" teams (just a random example), whose inclusion on WP will probably be met by much crying by the modern-day exclusionists who are offended by our project's inclusion criteria. I can only guess how many of these cricketers will be deleted based on flimsy POV criteria... Bobo . 20:00, 31 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

A somewhat lazy search turns up 134 players for Southern Punjab, at least 30 of whom have no documented birthdate. Just an indication of the length to which this list could be expanded. Bobo . 21:25, 31 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Delete all- another series of obscure one-match cricketers, purportedly biographies but actually match scorecards. In most cases we can't even determine the person's full name. Reyk _YO! 07:58, 1 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete all Having been recentlyu going through the articles in Category:1834 births, I keep finding it odd we have articles on cricketeers who seem to have played just one game.John Pack Lambert (talk) 02:01, 3 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.