Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Rudy Trouvé
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- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was no consensus. No agreement on whether he has independent notability apart from dEUS. King of ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ 01:39, 26 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Rudy Trouvé[edit]
- Rudy Trouvé (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log · Stats)
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More than eight years old and still no independent sources. No obvious in depth coverage in independent sources in google. Articles in four parallel language wikipedias, but none of them appear to have any additional refs. The edit removing the PROD contained the link http://www.lalibre.be/societe/voyage/article/177975/petit-trouve-de-l-anvers-alternatif.html which is in French, so I can't really evaluate it. Stuartyeates (talk) 08:19, 16 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- Keep: I added, apart from the link in my edit summary, some more links at the talk page of the article ([1]2 minutes before this AfD, so we probably crossed each other). These are major media (general or music specific) from Wallonia, Flanders and the Netherlands, where Rudy Trouvé is the main subject of the coverage. They are in French and Dutch, but they are more than sufficient to keep this. Being a full member of some notable bands (mainly dEUS and Dead Man Ray) and having a split album with a major international musician like Lou Barlow should be sufficient reasons to keep this as well. Fram (talk) 11:27, 16 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- I don't speak any of the languages of those sources, so I'm not in a position to evaluate them against WP:Notability (music). Are you sure dEUS and Dead Man Ray are notable? One doesn't point to a music article and one points to a wikipedia article with a single reference whose URL doesn't work for me. Stuartyeates (talk) 19:45, 16 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- Deus (band). Yes, they're definitely notable, as are Dead Man Ray - judging notability solely by looking at a Wikipedia article is not a good idea. Other projects that Trouve has been involved in are also notable, e.g. split album with Lou Barlow, Pawlovski, Trouve and Ward. See also [2], [3], [4], [5]. --Michig (talk) 21:11, 16 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- I don't speak any of the languages of those sources, so I'm not in a position to evaluate them against WP:Notability (music). Are you sure dEUS and Dead Man Ray are notable? One doesn't point to a music article and one points to a wikipedia article with a single reference whose URL doesn't work for me. Stuartyeates (talk) 19:45, 16 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- Keep: I'd also add than he is the subject of articles in 4 other languages, which presumably are not flagged for deletion...---Brigade Piron (talk) 11:46, 16 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Belgium-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 16:56, 16 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 16:56, 16 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- Keep. There's enough coverage around to demonstrate notability. --Michig (talk) 18:45, 16 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- Keep. Meets WP:MUSICBIO through in-depth coverage in reliable sources, as demonstrated above. — sparklism hey! 10:13, 22 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- Delete. The question is whether Trouvé is independently notable apart from the associated bands that are. Between the sources mentioned above and my own search, he isn't. The Gazet van Antwerpen is an announcement, hardly an article; the Urbanmag doesn't appear to be a RS based on their info page (though it would be the one source that appears to give Trouvé his own article); Kwadratuur appears somewhat more reliable, but posts no information on editorial oversight (Brussel Nieuws looks okay). In addition to my own search, there isn't more than a patchwork of album reviews available, and no single secondary, reliable source that focuses on his work as a notable endeavor. None of his solo or split albums have any major accolades, or more than scattered reviews of varying notability—they hardly give enough support for writing an encyclopedia article. So he is known for being in dEUS and not his outside career (as of now). I don't see how he passes WP:ANYBIO or WP:MUSICBIO. czar · · 14:40, 23 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- What about the "La libre belgique" source given above, which focuses solely on him and starts with "Rudy Trouvé, musicien emblématique de la métropole", which would make him meet WP:BAND #7; and the links to VPRO, Radio 1 and Studio Brussel, which would all make him meet WP:BAND #12? Your "delete" seems to focus solely on the least important sources, while ignoring the most important ones. Please see Talk:Rudy Trouvé for these links, as indicated above. Fram (talk) 14:46, 23 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- I responded on the talk page. My above comments were for the sources mentioned on this page, and I responded on the talk page for the sources mentioned on that page:
So no fit for #7, and #12 is a stretch because Trouvé is on air but not the featured subject of the Radio 1 eight-minute clip (ref2). Even with the decent La Libre praise (ref1), it's a single source against a wanting for reliable claims of notability. czar · · 15:46, 23 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]Ref1 is good, ref3 is unreliable (per their FAQ page), and ref4 glows suspiciously because it's written by volunteer editors (though VPRO appears more reputable on the whole). And the quote from Oor (ref5) actually expands to
"Als we denken aan belangrijke figuren in de Belgische popscene, denken we natuurlijk aan Tom Barman en Stef Kamil Carlens. Maar vergeet Rudy Trouvé niet."
(the important Belgian pop figures are Barman and Carlens, Trouvé is usually forgotten). Some of these are good finds, but with the unreliable sources aside, the argument is that Trouvé is not independently notable with enough reliable sources to support an entire encyclopedia article.
— User:Czar 15:07, 23 April 2013 (UTC)- My response from the talk page: Your translation of the Oor quote is wrong. It's not "Trouvé is usually forgotten" but "But don't forget Rudy Trouvé." This is of course nearly the opposite meaning of what you made of it. So even ignoring Ref 3 and 4, we have Refs 1, 2 and 5, plus his actual contributions to two notable bands and a split album with another very notable musician. Fram (talk) 07:27, 24 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- Even with your translation, the point was that Trouvé is not as renowned as Barman and Carlens. He is only discussed in the capacity of being a former dEUS member, and not his own notable work. "His actual contributions to two notable bands" doesn't matter if notability is not inherited, and his split album with someone notable also doesn't matter if there is zero critical response to it (in fact, it says the opposite). I'm not arguing that he isn't interesting, just that the refs don't support his status as an independently notable cultural figure. Ref5 (Oor), like the Gazet van Antwerpen, is an announcement or blurb, not GNG significant coverage. (And Ref2, the Radio 1 dual interview, isn't exactly strong for him either.) From the Brussel Nieuws source, I think of this:
"En dan is er een boutade die zegt dat Rudy Trouvé uit een project stapt wanneer het al te succesvol dreigt te worden."
I looked for more sources, but I think we're stretching too far. I can only see inherited notability from dEUS and not independent notability for his art or other band involvement from these discussed examples. czar · · 15:06, 24 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- Even with your translation, the point was that Trouvé is not as renowned as Barman and Carlens. He is only discussed in the capacity of being a former dEUS member, and not his own notable work. "His actual contributions to two notable bands" doesn't matter if notability is not inherited, and his split album with someone notable also doesn't matter if there is zero critical response to it (in fact, it says the opposite). I'm not arguing that he isn't interesting, just that the refs don't support his status as an independently notable cultural figure. Ref5 (Oor), like the Gazet van Antwerpen, is an announcement or blurb, not GNG significant coverage. (And Ref2, the Radio 1 dual interview, isn't exactly strong for him either.) From the Brussel Nieuws source, I think of this:
- My response from the talk page: Your translation of the Oor quote is wrong. It's not "Trouvé is usually forgotten" but "But don't forget Rudy Trouvé." This is of course nearly the opposite meaning of what you made of it. So even ignoring Ref 3 and 4, we have Refs 1, 2 and 5, plus his actual contributions to two notable bands and a split album with another very notable musician. Fram (talk) 07:27, 24 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- I responded on the talk page. My above comments were for the sources mentioned on this page, and I responded on the talk page for the sources mentioned on that page:
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.