Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Robert Joseph Greene

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. —Darkwind (talk) 01:14, 16 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Robert Joseph Greene[edit]

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Nonnotable author, but manages to pass speedy.

The books are in almost no libraries: his most widely held book is in 16 libraries I recognize it's s specialized genre, but it's a pretty large specialized genre.

I do not think the other material mentioned shows notability either. My own guess is that the most likely notability will be because of the censorship controversy about This High School has Closets The article talk p. asserts that WP is hostile to LGBT material, so I think it would be fairer to have a community discussion than to judge by myself DGG ( talk ) 13:01, 7 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Delete - This is essentially a ghost-written autobiography, as the only contributors (not counting deletion notices) are the subject of the article and ~~his publicist~~ an associate. The only "reference" that says anything substantial about the author is a self-submitted bio. All others say nothing more than the subject has written published books. Searches reveal no interviews, no awards, no notable achievements, nothing that meets WP:AUTHOR guidelines. Sexual orientation, no matter how often it is mentioned, doesn't help the subject meet WP:GNG. --| Uncle Milty | talk | 14:09, 7 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. Worldcat does not have the full comprehensive list of libraries that carry Mr. Greene’s works. I did check with the publicist and there are considerably more than 16 libraries that carry the book worldwide. So, there is an inaccuracy in your rebuttal.

Please source unsubstantiated personal attacks WP: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion under wikiettiquette - Please source the accusation that the publicist has an account with wikipedia and has made an entry, I just got off the phone with Robert Christofle (publicist at Icon Empire Press) and he says he does not have an account with Wikipedia.
The statement about ghost writers and self bio again is inaccurate and reflects more of editing down the article instead of deletion. My sources were Amazon.com and Goodreads.com for a majority of the information.
Mr. Greene was a finalist in the Lamda Literary Awards and I will make this change to the article for awards nomination.
The statement about not meeting WP:Author is inaccurate and I will quote that entry requirement:A person is presumed to be notable if he or she has been the subject of multiple published[3] secondary sources which are reliable, intellectually independent of each other,[4] and independent of the subject.[5]I have met this criteria by multiple notable entries about the author by siting: PrideSource, The Georgia Straight , PFLAG: Canada In fact, the article has met the subcatagory of “substantial” entry because the Georgia Straight article carries the Author in the title of the article and focuses on the author as subject matter in the story.I will go further and submit the Canadian Library Association article about censorship and Mr. Greene which is not listed online. However, it will bolster the WP:Author criteria and I will add more information about his in the article.
My philosophy was to put a lot in and have contributors edit out those items that they felt didn’t apply. I find that there is “lack of accuracy” in the comments made However, I have addressed the points. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tews (talk • contribs) 18:18, 7 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

My apologies. The comment accompanying this diff along with the tone of the original article led me to believe there was a professional relationship and that the subject of the article is editing the article. I suppose a publicist would be unlikely to 'forget a book' with writing the article. However, if there are so many reliable sources available then please add them to the article. I have been unable to find them, but that doesn't mean they aren't out there. As the article stands at the moment, there is no evidence that the subject meets the basic notability criteria. --| Uncle Milty | talk | 18:43, 7 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

In following your request to continue to find reliable sources. I came across Mr. Greene's complaint filed with the Canadian Broadcast Standards Council accusing CKYE-FM and the Harjinder Thind Show of biased against the LGBT community. Mr. Greene has been on-going in fighting against homophobia both in his works and in his actions. I do believe this should shows depth in making Mr. Greene noteworthy and that this article should not be removed. However, I do support your right to make editorial changes that you feel are necessary.Tews | talk —Preceding undated comment added 20:53, 7 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - The article appears to be of an author of many novels and who has some accolades for those novels. All the novels appear in search results and are available. Reviewing WP:AUTHOR guidelines it is plausible that this person meets criteria set out. The fact that the books are not available in libraries is irrelevant as there are a number of authors that would not be found in libraries but are still published and relevant authors. Obsidious81 (talk) 17:56, 7 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Canada-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 20:41, 7 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Authors-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 20:41, 7 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Keep, the author is a prolific writer of novels and works and meets the criteria under WP:AUTHOR. He and his works have received secondary source coverage from multiple different references. — Cirt (talk) 14:33, 8 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. I have read Mr Greene's wiki entry and it adhered to the guideline set out by Wikipedia. I found the information on his entry to be unbiased and insightful about the author. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.91.187.13 (talk) 23:29, 11 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. Robert Joseph Greene is a member of the Canadian Authors Association and has professional status within the organization. The Canadian Authors Association is a membership-based writers' association founded in 1921 by Stephen Leacock and other noted authors. As the current National President of the association, I can attest that we support the inclusion of Mr. Greene's entry.Mattbin (talk) 02:18, 13 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Sexuality and gender-related deletion discussions. — Cirt (talk) 14:40, 8 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Although additional references are certainly still needed here, there are enough reliable sources to cover off the basic question of whether he meets a notability criterion or not. Any subjective debate about whether he passes WP:AUTHOR cleanly enough for your own individual satisfaction is a moot point, furthermore, as WP:AUTHOR is explicitly defined as an additional criterion to help determine the notability of authors in the case of any doubt — WP:BASIC, an earlier section of the very same guideline, clarifies that if a person passes that criterion, they can still be kept even if they completely fail WP:AUTHOR (and, again, it's debatable at best whether this guy actually fails the more specific guideline.) So yes, some improvement is still warranted, but keep. Bearcat (talk) 23:47, 13 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Delete, the sourcing here is pretty weak and in my mind does not establish notability. Yes, this person exists, yes, this person has written some novels (which, I'll freely admit, takes a lot of time and dedication), and yes, this person has made some complaints to various regulatory authorities. But there is no in-depth coverage of this person in third-party sources as far as I can see. Lankiveil ^{(speak to me)} 12:51, 15 April 2013 (UTC).[reply]
Delete or WP:USERFY upon creator request. The current state of the article does not support any notability, but there "may" be more out there that could support it. Technical 13 (talk) 19:13, 15 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Keep per WP:GNG, at least two (likely more) direct coverage in articles on newspapers, and several mentions elsewhere. Diego (talk) 20:36, 15 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.