Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Robert ÆOLUS Myers

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. —Xyrael / 11:57, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

Robert ÆOLUS Myers

Musician and composer; doesn't appear to meet WP:MUSIC. Relevant Google search. Craaaazy unicode character, though not a critereon for deletion, makes a successful search for the subject unlikely. Fernando Rizo 19:31, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

• It is asserted that all details of the article are true and verifiable. As regards searchable with Æ as a character in the name, Google has a number of entries for this specific person under the exact spelling Robert ÆOLUS Myers already in their database. User:Hiiaka 19:40, 14 September 2006
  • Assertions are well and good, but what we need is references. Please have a peek at the inclusion guidlines at WP:MUSIC and if you can find any verfiable source that meets those guidelines, I'll be happy to withdraw the nomination for deletion. Fernando Rizo 19:47, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

As Cited in WP:MUSIC this article satisfies:

1) Has gone on an international concert tour, or a national concert tour in at least one large or medium-sized country,[1] reported in notable and verifiable sources.[2

2) Has released two or more albums on a major label or one of the more important indie labels (i.e. an independent label with a history of more than a few years and a roster of performers, many of which are notable).

3) Has been featured in multiple non-trivial published works in reliable and reputable media (excludes things like school newspapers, personal blogs, etc...). – numerous press articles in Honolulu Advertiser & Honolulu Star Bulletin – see google reference cited under Christian New Age references

User:Hiiaka 19:59, 14 September 2006

Revisiting the above arguments note that WP:MUSIC states, "A musician or ensemble (note that this includes a band, singer, rapper, orchestra, hip hop crew, DJ, musical theatre group, etc.) is notable if it meets any one of the following criteria". These are three of the cited criteria that are met--1) Robert ÆOLUS Myers' tour to Spain which included the Expo '92 in Seville does not have readily available web citations, though hard copy information could be supplied in verification; 2) Relevant Google search as cited above derives a number of citations corroborating Robert ÆOLUS Myers' inclusion in Global Pacific Records roster. See Global Pacific Sampler, FRUITS OF OUR LABOR; 3) A major article in the Honolulu Star Bulletin (Mike Gordon, "The New Age of Music," _Honolulu Star-Bulletin_, 5 Nov. 1987.) is cited in a 1993 reprint for web article "How 'New Age' is New Age Music?" cited from Christian Research Newsletter, Volume 2: Number 1, 1989 by Elliot Miller.

Hiiaka 23:50, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

• Delete. If the sources mentioned above are the best ones available, then it's pretty obviously a delete. None of them are articles about the subject, the best one is the "How 'New Age'..." thing, which has one paragraph out of 12 mentioning him. 29 unique google hits for "Robert ÆOLUS Myers" (which also includes results that have ae instead of Æ) have no relevant mentions of him either. - Bobet 07:36, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

The above refenced article, Mike Gordon, "The New Age of Music," _Honolulu Star-Bulletin_, 5 Nov. 1987 does indeed fulfill the criteria noted in WP:MUSIC, while the "How 'New Age'..." article does not, but does contain the reference. However, Honolulu Star-Bulletin articles from 1987 being pre-internet phenomenon are currently unverifiable by interent seach engine research. I will see if I can access a hard copy of the article and post a link to a scanned copy, though this may go against Wikipedia linking protocols (please advise how to submit hard copy references).

A second WP:MUSIC criteria is the artist's participation in "one of the more important indie labels" with a roster of "notable" artists. Global Pacific Records, with artists such as Bob Kindler, Steve Kindler, Georgia Kelly, David Friesen, Paul Greaver, Ben Taverna King, Charles Brotman, and Tor Dietrichson, etc. was a strong enough label to be purchased by Sony records in the mid-eighties when Private Music and Windham Hill had a lion's share of the new age market so that Sony could establish themselves in the market as well. Additionally, the above mentioned "notable" artists are search engine verifiable.

• Note: two albums released on Global Pacific as cited on Global Pacific Gems.Hiiaka 20:20, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

Again, I reference the WP:MUSIC criteria that states that only one criteria need be met to let an article stand and that declining the acceptance of articles due to criteria outside of the guidelines is capricious at best and Wikipedia reputation damaging at least. To defer to "not researchable by Google" is not cited as criteria for dismissal. Hiiaka 17:20, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

• Comment - there has been a lot of research completed to support this article in the AfD process. I would suggest that one of the people who want to have this article kept should take the time to use this info to provide citations in the article. As it stands, the article still does not meet the requirements of WP:MUSIC.--Gay Cdn (talk) (email) (Contr.) 01:11, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

Comment - Citations to entities not the artist could be readily made, i.e. to the record company, the artistic collaborators and affiliations, and to specific articles within Wikipedia itself referencing the Sufi masters and Expo '92. This would get a cross referenced article, and I would be happy to do that. However, what remains under dispute is how important an indie label is Global Pacific (I am not sure that a citation would help this and would smack of a commercial citation), is the Honolulu Star Bulletin an important journal (this still does not cite the article under question), and did the Spain tour occur (no citations for this are available outside of citing the Expo '92)? I would suggest letting the article stand on the merit of the Record company and inputting the available citations. Citations are a good enough idea, but needs a bit more consensus to be seen a remedy. With a nod and/or a wink I could make it so.Hiiaka 08:08, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

 AFD relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so that consensus may be reached.
 Please add new discussions below this notice. Thanks, —Xyrael / 10:53, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

I am in the process of uploading archived articles for citation.Hiiaka 01:26, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

• Citation sources scanned from the original articles have been referenced at the end of the article. Additionally Wikipedia cross references have been cited as well as pertinent web based citations highlighted. I hope these edits will contribute to its merit and verifiability.Hiiaka 08:02, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.