Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Robb Elementary School

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was redirect to Uvalde Consolidated Independent School District. Editors reached a clear consensus that the school itself, independent of the shooting, is not notable. (non-admin closure) {{u|Sdkb}} talk 19:22, 28 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Robb Elementary School[edit]

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Robb Elementary School (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log | edits since nomination)
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Per WP:NSCHOOL and WP:SCHOOLOUTCOMES. Most of the coverage in the WP:RS provided is for the shooting, not the school itself, so it makes more sense to redirect it to the event it is notable for or the school district in question. It's the same thing that we do for the Sandy Hook Elementary School article. Love of Corey (talk) 01:31, 25 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Just based off Sandy Hook? What about Columbine High School, Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School shooting, Army Public School Peshawar, Jokela High School, Albertville-Realschule, etc.? Dunutubble (talk) (Contributions) 01:53, 25 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
@Dunutubble: the difference is those are high schools. High schools are generally considered notable under most circumstances, see WP:HS. However, primary and elementary schools are not considered to be notable. For example, Sandy Hook Elementary School does not have its own article. Iamreallygoodatcheckers (talk) 02:00, 25 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The fact that this is an elementary school makes it more notable -- not less -- than a high school. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 03:25, 25 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
@Joseph A. Spadaro: can you please explain your rationale for such a claim? Iamreallygoodatcheckers (talk) 03:30, 25 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Violence, murders, killings, shootings, crime, etc., are a dime-a-dozen in high schools (and colleges). Elementary schools, not so much. Much more rare. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 03:32, 25 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
That doesn't make the school itself notable. That just makes the shooting notable. -- RockstoneSend me a message! 06:13, 25 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Then, for that matter, Bath Consolidated School, Poe Elementary School (Houston), etc. Dunutubble (talk) (Contributions) 02:18, 25 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
wikipedia:OTHERSTUFF. The mere existence of one article does not justify the existence of another article; what’s important is coverage the specific article topic at issue has received in reliable sources. Spirit of Eagle (talk) 02:46, 25 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Well Poe is notable for being a historical site more so than being a school. As for Bath, it seems to be more of an exception to the rule, rather than the rule. In fact, I would support merging Bath with Bath School disaster. Iamreallygoodatcheckers (talk) 02:48, 25 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Additionally there is reliable source information on a preschool formerly co-located with Poe, created to support Poe, to where an academic wrote a book chapter about it. WhisperToMe (talk) 05:38, 25 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Bath was also a K-12 school, not an elementary school, according to that article. -- RockstoneSend me a message! 06:42, 25 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I believe at the time of the bombing, Bath was a 1-12 school, not an elementary school. But talking about other articles here is a waste of time. Please stay on topic. 174.212.228.89 (talk) 08:48, 25 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The fact that Sandy Hook Elementary does not have its own page, only the page referencing the shooting, to me puts this into perspective. That, along with the fact that his page is simply rehashing the shooting, I support the deletion. Sheehanpg93 (talk) 13:41, 26 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
@Dunutubble This school is a poor performing school is a poor area of Texas. I spent way too much time trying to get information to even begin to setup a context for the school's article let alone having some standalone notability. I would deem this as waste and instead move focus to the event. PigSkinsAndComputers (talk) 01:56, 26 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: I'm a bit distracted at the moment, but searching Newspapers.com (thanks Wikipedia Library!) I was able to find in the 1970s accusations of racism against students, leading to a series of workshops between the "Anglo" (as the article described them) and Mexican-American faculty to ease tensions. They were cancelled after one meeting. Soon after, a Mexican-American teacher being let go while he ran for office as a Democrat. The school board denied the timing of the firing was related, but it sparked first a protest of 100 to 150 at the board office, followed by a walkout of roughly 450 Mexican-American students. These events received coverage in newspapers throughout the state of Texas, thanks to pickup by both the Associated Press and United Press International.
  • There was also a second lawsuit around the same time, a class action one on behalf of Mexican-American students by the mother of one Robb student.[1][2] Clarityfiend (talk) 23:18, 25 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • @Clarityfiend: Thank you for finding these! See if you can write prose about this and put it in the article. It may be possible to use articles to build a case of notability for this school. WhisperToMe (talk) 19:13, 26 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Reviewing those sources, it appears the case was against the school board for the district, and the school receives only passing mention once in each article. I think it's the type of detail that would be suitable for the school district's page, but it doesn't seem like significant coverage of the school itself. RunningTiger123 (talk) 22:48, 26 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • I've been unable to find when the school was built, but references appear as early as 1963.
  • If I wrote this up, and potentially found other widely-covered or elsewise notable headlines, is this likely to save the article? -- Zanimum (talk) 22:46, 25 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • I don't think so, personally. The school is only notable because of this shooting, and it wouldn't have had an article otherwise. -- RockstoneSend me a message! 23:29, 25 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • (edit conflict) Probably not; that would still fall under routine coverage, and it doesn't have much lasting notability. Notability for individual elementary schools is extremely difficult to achieve. But if the article is redirected (and it probably will) then it could be included in the school district article. Ovinus (talk) 23:33, 25 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I doubt it. We have at least one opposition vote. Not exactly SNOW. Love of Corey (talk) 02:54, 26 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Checkers, why do you care if this school has an article? Sandy Hook is in the news enough it should have a stand alone article. You don't understand notability at all.Pictureperfect2 (talk) 12:38, 27 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Things are generally not known for one event. The school is not notable, only the shooting itself. Iamreallygoodatcheckers (talk) 18:29, 27 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Question: Is there any reason why there is no "hat note" or template at the article, letting readers know of this AfD discussion? Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 05:39, 26 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
wrugtrab wrote in their edit summary: "Wikipedia article deletion have been closed?--🐦DrWho42👻 05:49, 26 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
OK. But has it, in fact, been closed? It appears not ... ? Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 06:31, 26 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep Enough sources for the school make me think it's noteworthy and worthy of a standalone article. --Bedivere (talk) 20:33, 26 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Redirect as elementary schools are not notable, only high schools. cookie monster 755 05:08, 27 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Redirect Seems like common sense; we very rarely have elementary school articles, and the tragic events don't change the fact that routine statistics about students and faculty don't warrant a standalone article. The district article should be able to cover that and whatever old news articles that could be dug up (just like they could for many elementaries). Reywas92Talk 15:32, 27 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Redirect to Robb Elementary School shooting as this incident above all else is what the school seems to be getting attention for. We can discuss the killings and aftermath there. While I can understand targeting the Uvalde Consolidated Independent School District page instead (and I wouldn't particularly mind that being the outcome), my preference is for the shooting article. SNUGGUMS (talk / edits) 16:58, 27 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment The school seems like a valid topic for an article. I found the article because I am interested in aspects of the school that are not part of the news about the recent event. And why should the "why" of why I look for an article be part of what validates its presence on wikipedia? It should be enough that somebody would look it up in an encyclopedia, paper or otherwise, and for any reason at all. That some, or even much, of the content refers to the event may be grounds for providing a redirect, or to argue that the article needs some work, nothing more. We do not delete the article about Chicago because it also describes the Chicago fire, nor the one on NYC because it dares to mention 9/11. Deletion quite obviously, would seem overtly heavy handed, inappropriate, and a gross disservice to the community DrKN1 (talk) 23:33, 27 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    I recommended redirecting the page. Cwater1 (talk) 03:34, 28 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Being a "valid topic" for an article is not our criteria for keeping an article here. We have notability guidelines and many editors here say that this school does not meet them. Your examples of Chicago or New York City don't make any sense as those topics are clearly notable. Natg 19 (talk) 18:33, 28 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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