Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Richard Elfman

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Jayjg ^(talk) 05:59, 11 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Richard Elfman[edit]

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Promotional article about an apparently non-notable subject, who has notable relatives. May be part of a walled garden, see also buzzine. References are not reliable sources. Nuujinn (talk) 14:07, 27 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Strong keep - Richard Elfman has a thirty year career in film, music, and theater. Please refer to his [1] page. While none of his films were exactly blockbusters, Forbidden Zone has a cult following, and even a live theater homage.[2] Richard was also the founder of the hugely influential music group Oingo Boingo. This article does have problems - namely that the article's subject appears to be the main contributor to (and heavy-handed editor to) it, but that's a different issue, and not one of notability. GreenGlass^(talk) 19:57, 27 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The first link you provide is a 404 not found, and neither would considered reliable sources. --Nuujinn (talk) 12:10, 28 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Actors and filmmakers-related deletion discussions. —Nsk92 (talk) 18:31, 27 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Clearly promotional. I went and deleted the unsourced content, as well as information about his relatives and companies (since the article is supposed to be about him), and there's not much about him that seems to be actually notable. --Mr. Vernon (talk) 20:07, 27 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Agree with Mr. Vernon. Elfman has certainly done many things, but it's not clear which, if any, are actually notable Vartanza (talk) 04:31, 28 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Keep per Wikipedia:Notability (people)#Entertainers. Richard Elfman is the creator of Forbidden Zone, which has a large cult following. He was also the leader and founding member of The Mystic Knights of the Oingo Boingo. In other words, without Richard Elfman, there would have been no Danny Elfman as we know him. There quite possibly would have been no Pee Wee Herman either as Paul Reubens is a fan of Forbidden Zone. As was pointed out above, Mr. Elfman's quite colorful contributions to his own page are a different issue. --Stacey Doljack Borsody (talk) 04:49, 28 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- I should add, just do the news search and you'll find a ton of sites discussing Richard Elfman and Forbidden Zone if you need any proof of the large cult following. --Stacey Doljack Borsody (talk) 04:54, 28 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Keep notable as the founder of Mystic Knights of the Oingo Boingo [3], and also as director of Forbidden Zone [4]. Interviewed in the Austin chronicle, SF Bay Guardian. -- Whpq (talk) 20:04, 28 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, JForget 01:12, 4 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Delete per Mr. Vernon. What notability is there is by association only, and even then it's extremely weak. It's also extremely clear, given the article history, that this is being used as a platform for self promotion (see WP:COI, WP:SPAM). Andrew Lenahan - Starblind 01:36, 4 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- The issue of the article being used for self-promotion is separate from notability. If a more notable person, say Seth Green, were editing their own Wikipedia article in ways that didn't conform to Wikipedia standards, would we delete the article? --Stacey Doljack Borsody (talk) 16:45, 4 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Question Is "Richard" Elfman actually Danny Elfman? If so, there is no question about notability. He did the soundtracks for many Tim Burton movies and has already been pointed out, was the founding member of Oingo Boingo, a band with several hit songs in the 1980's. Nineteen Nightmares (talk) 01:40, 4 July 2010 (UTC)Nineteen Nightmares[reply]

Answer: “Is Richard Elfman actually Danny Elfman?” That can be confusing. Like the time a few years back I was getting drunk at some swank Hollywood club as the pretty barmaid--an Oingo Boingo fan--kept filling my ($11@) glass and refusing to let me pay for it. Under the noise and din of the music, I finally realized that the young lady had me confused for my younger brother Danny. I started to reach for my wallet, explain things and pay up, but decided not too, as I seemed to be getting confused on the issue myself… and I promise to never enter stuff like this on my article page in the future, even if it can be referenced!Richard Elfman (talk)

He is Danny Elfman's older brother. On the negative side, he does have a problem with his own vanity, which has affected the article as he has participated in it. I noted a website in External links questioning the fact that he claims to be younger than his younger brother. Not included is his Myspace page that comes up in a google search making that same claim. He certainly pales in the shadow of his brother's accomplishments from exactly the same notable starting point. He has obviously made some different career choices, but that is not cause to delete him.Trackinfo (talk) 01:37, 6 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I didn't know Danny had an older brother, or that he was instrumental in forming Oingo Boingo, so I found the article interesting and informative. I admit I came into this after the AfD nom and have not looked at Mr. Elfman's apparently colorful edits to his own article. Nineteen Nightmares (talk) 03:02, 7 July 2010 (UTC)Nineteen Nightmares[reply]

Strong Keep I think I've answered my own question above ^^^ and although he is not Danny Elfman, he did apparently found the band Oingo Boingo, which in itself is quite notable. His work in movies is also notable, though somewhat less notable than founding the band. If there are problems with the subject's contributions, the article can be re-edited and he could be banned, if necessary, but I hope that wont be necessary. Nineteen Nightmares (talk) 01:47, 4 July 2010 (UTC)Nineteen Nightmares[reply]
Keep The fellow founded Mystic Knights of the Oingo Boingo [5] and even MTV refers to his 1982 Forbidden Zone, which is still being screened 28 years later, as a "cult musical comedy"[6] And oh... I forgot to mention I believe he may even meet WP:BAND. Schmidt, ^{MICHAEL Q.} 02:09, 4 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Oingo Boingo connection makes him notable, QED. Carrite (talk) 15:54, 4 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Keep I added and sourced more information. Oingo Boingo alone should make him notable, plus he's got more of a career of cult films, a few of them notable. Trackinfo (talk) 01:30, 6 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Keep without question. Google books Interview on quietearth, review of Forbidden Zone. Mentions in cinema guides etc. --JN 466 16:58, 6 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Apology! I have apparently used my article page as a promotional platform with an obvious conflict of interest and lack of neutrality. Unfortunately, I must claim utter ignorance of the editing rules and guideline of Wikipedia, of which I have now started to read for the first time. I very much respect Wikipedia and value what it offers. Mea culpa and sorry for any fuss I have created. One last note: that birth date stuff about me being younger than Danny was put out by a long former publicist—she even created my MySpace page--which I had forgotten about until reading this page, and just ordered the MF page taken down—thank you. Please keep up your good work! Richard Elfman (talk)
Comment Mr. Elfman, it is common to be slapped around by editors your first time editing here. Though many people feel anyone can do anything to Wikipedia, and that is true, vandalism and non encyclopedic content will be removed, eventually. Contrary to many articles that have no notability to recommened them, we are well beyond that with you and your contributions to pop culture. I will thank you on behalf of all the editors here at Wiki and am glad to say it looks like we will keep it. Nineteen Nightmares (talk) 02:56, 7 July 2010 (UTC)Nineteen Nightmares[reply]
Rant We, the Wikipedia community, create rules upon rules upon rules then expect "newbies" to follow the rules without giving enough benefit of doubt. I've always found it frustrating. I see no real reason for this AfD. As the article needs improving, attention could have been brought to it in a less aggressive and more constructive manner prior to threatening deletion. --Stacey Doljack Borsody (talk) 06:51, 7 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.