Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Reformed Liberal Catholic Church

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. per WP:PROD Catfish Jim and the soapdish 14:39, 23 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Reformed Liberal Catholic Church[edit]

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Cannot find sufficient reliable sources to demonstrate notability. David V. Barrett (26 May 2011). A Brief Guide to Secret Religions: A Complete Guide to Hermetic, Pagan and Esoteric Beliefs. Little, Brown Book Group. p. 59. ISBN 978-1-84901-811-1. mentions its founding but it is only a passing mention (a single sentence), not significant coverage. This conference paper mentions it was founded in 1999, but that's all it has to say, again not SIGCOV (also, it starts with a request not to quote from it without the author's permission, so I don't think we could use it even if it discussed this group in extensive detail.) United States. Internal Revenue Service (1997). Cumulative List of Organizations Described in Section 170 (c) of the Internal Revenue Code of 1954. Department of the Treasury, Internal Revenue Service. mentions the existence of an organisation by this name being registered as a religious group with the US tax authorities; again, that isn't significant coverage. That's all the independent reliable sources I can find. Given the above, I don't believe WP:GNG is met here. SJK (talk) 04:44, 16 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Christianity-related deletion discussions. SJK (talk) 04:44, 16 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of United Kingdom-related deletion discussions. SJK (talk) 04:48, 16 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. This article has no sources at all. There are, apparently, a number of separate denominations in the Liberal Catholic movement and this is, apparently, one of them, but without significant coverage in reliable independent sources, I don't think we ought to have an article about this one. In addition, the citation to the Cumulative List of Organizations above probably could not refer to this church, since it was published in 1997 and, according to this article, this denomination was founded in the UK in 1999. I suspect the citation referred to a different denomination with a similar or identical name. --Metropolitan90 (talk) 21:11, 16 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Comment This strikes me as a miniscule splinter denomination. I think we should either tolerate an article surviving or find a target where it an other similar movements can be briefly merged. Peterkingiron (talk) 17:03, 17 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Comment With small churches claiming apostolic succession there can be considerable overlap between them, as titles become part of the fun--why just be a bishop in one church, when you can also be a cleric in a another at the same time. Some of these churches have no laity except for family and friends of the clergy, and no church buildings except for specially designated rooms in people's houses. This doesn't make it non-notable per se, but at some point it becomes a lot like the whole titles of nobility thing. The term for this overall phenomenon is Episcopi vagantes, and some Episcopi vagantes also hold titles in various secular knighthood/lords/ladies orders. This church appears to have current clergy-roster overlap with Liberal Catholic Church International. Possibly it isn't really a splinter, but more of a spin-off. If you wanted to merge it, look at List_of_independent_Catholic_denominations. Before deleting or merging it you would properly need to individually google each clergy-person's name and figure out how much cross rostering there is with other similar denominations. Also, look for pictures of laity, Sunday-School, etc., and whether the pictures appear to be from inside a house-like building.

There is not necessarily any distinction between the Episcopi vagantes and bona-fide splinter group. Just as Herbalife (e.g. Formula one shake mix) seems to have morphed from being a pyramid scheme in the early days to a legitimate Multi-level marketing organization, it could just as well turn in to a pure scam again should its business sour. It is that way with these sorts of organizations-- an aspiring cleric can join to get in on the action, and then make something of it, or not. Some use their clerical status to perform weddings and other ceremonies, or be a chaplain in a nursing home even if they can't round up a congregation. Sometimes clerics put their classical language knowledge to use by teaching at a secular organization. So this can complicate notability determination.--Epiphyllumlover (talk) 04:25, 18 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.