Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Raymone Bain (2nd nomination)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Consensus is for the article to be retained. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 08:40, 1 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Raymone Bain[edit]

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I've been trying to edit and improve this article, but the more I look at it, the more things about it that don't seem to make a case for the subject's notability. I realize the article has been around since 2005, but consider the following: there is a series of claims made in the article that lack any supporting references, including some direct quotes; the only evidence of her receiving the President's Lifetime Achievement Award is on various mirror sites (and even if she DID receive it, the exclusivity of that award is also open to some doubt-- it was probably not handed to her by Obama, though his signature would have been on it); the article makes a number of statements about people she has represented, but as notability is WP:NOTINHERITED, these don't count (never mind the lack of sourcing for the claims); the article in Sister2Sister magazine, now defunct and not even hosting a website, is an interview, which is problematic when it is conducted by a low-profile publication like this one; she may very well have represented and come to know Michael Jackson, but again, that doesn't make her notable-- it just makes her his attorney on at least one matter. The previous deletion discussion ended with no consensus. Promotional language issues aside, substantive discussion on her outside of blog pages just appears to be lacking... although discussions about her lawsuit against the Jackson estate might (?) be enough to get her over the line, but ??? A loose noose (talk) 02:03, 15 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Businesspeople-related deletion discussions. WeAreAllHere _talk 02:36, 15 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - The person has demonstrated GNG based on public and long-term relationship as publicist then manager of Michael Jackson, during and after his death (including litigation case against MJ Estate) with stories in Rolling Stone and Hollywood Reporter. More work needs to be done on the article, including better sourcing of material, but keep and improve for sure. --Simone2049 04:29, 15 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Washington, D.C.-related deletion discussions. WeAreAllHere _talk 02:37, 15 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I am tired of his woman being discriminated against. Who are you to say what this woman has done? Where are you located? An illustrious career as her's and she's up for deletion? Then delete everyone else's. Mightypub1 (talk)

Raymone Bain an African American woman. She has represented Michael Jackson as Spokesperson, General Manager, Trustee-MJPubishing Trust, Music Licensing Agent, President and COO of the Michael Jackson Co, and appointed to the Board of Sony/ATV Music Publishing...In addition, has represented, Muhammad Ali, Babyface, Boyz II Men, Steve Harvey, Janet Jackson, Marvelous Marvin Hagler, Mike Tyson, Thomas "The Hitman" Hearns, Marion Barry, Jr. and other icons and her page is up for deletion?Mightypub1 (talk) 06:48, 16 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Name me another African American woman who has represented such an illustrious group of individuals.Mightypub1 (talk)`

You can't find references: try the NY Post, the Washington Post, the NY Times ("Michael Jackson Names Raymone Bain as General Manager") the LA Times, ABC, NBC, CBS, CNN, MSNBC, FOX, Entertainment Tonight, Access Hollywood, Inside Edition, EXTRA... Are you kidding me? Who are you? Mightypub1 (talk)`

Then, you note at the headline of this woman's page that you're considering deleting it? How tacky and unprofessional.Mightypub1 (talk)`

You state that you've tried finding citations? Give me a break.Mightypub1 (talk) 06:48, 16 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I know her. I've seen the Presidential Lifetime Achievement Award, the pendant she received and the letter. Someone send me your email address. I will take a picture of it and forwarded it to you.Mightypub1 (talk) 06:48, 16 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

And, what is a "publicizer?" She is a Media strategist.Mightypub1 (talk) 06:48, 16 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Sources: the NY Times, the NY Post, the LA Times, the Washington Post, CNN, MSNBC, FOX, NBC, CBS, Entertainment Tonight, Access Hollywood, the Miami Herald, etc.Mightypub1 (talk) 06:48, 16 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

comment I assume Mightypub1 was too upset or exhausted to remember to vote. It would have been helpful if either they or simone2049 had actually produced links to all those refs that apparently exist.

I copy edited this awhile back and removed a fair bit of promotional stuff (and there was lots), and I recall there were a lot more references- theres a note in history saying that someone removed misplaced refs and put them on the talkpage, but that seems to have been overlooked. The New York times and Rolling Stone refs arent much more than a namecheck [1], but, the Washington Post did a big in depth article on her back in 2006 [2] that provides a fair amount of biographical info, and there is another one from Washington Life [3], although it looks like PR fluff. I'm not sure how notable she is though, because theres not much about anything unconnected to the Michael Jackson stage of her career, and the article has had so many PR people all over it,its hard to weed out the rubbish.Curdle (talk) 19:32, 21 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

ok voting Keep I cleaned it up, so it looks less like a resume and more like an article, and found some much better sources and added them- Washington Post is back in; theres one from the Telegraph, Billboard, another Washington Post, Rolling Stone and Fox News. - was able to reference a lot of the statements, though there are still a couple that may have to go. I couldn't find anything about the Presidental award anywhere either. However it seems she has done a fair bit of political fundraising/campaigning, over several campaigns including Obama's, so its possible there might be something somewhere. I think theres enough ( especially the Washington Post article) to prove Notabilty. Curdle (talk) 01:14, 22 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Sources added since deletion nomination should be evaluated.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, 78.26 _{(spin me / revolutions)} 20:42, 23 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Keep more notable than a pageant queen as she actually did some notable things. Her race/color/gender is absolutely irrelevent to the discussion and should never have been raised by Mightypub1 Legacypac (talk) 20:47, 23 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Keep The page needs an overhaul in terms of the content and format, but there are plenty of sources to establish notability, I believe. Just needs to be cleaned up a bit. Gargleafg (talk) 22:44, 30 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.