Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Ravi Venkatesan

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. The nomination has been countered with the provision of sources, although claims of promotionalism in the nomination were not addressed much in the discussion. The nominator has not commented on the sources provided later in the discussion, and the user that !voted to delete after the nomination stated later in the discussion, "I will not re-analyse further referencing, it's hard work". As such, it appears that the sources presented later in the discussion were not addressed by either. Conversely and relative to this, there is an overall consensus here that the subject meets notability guidelines per the sources presented herein. North America1000 17:18, 6 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Ravi Venkatesan[edit]

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Ravi Venkatesan (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log · Stats)
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Fails WP:GNG and WP:BIO. Straightaway PR/Advertising WP:PROMO. Hence, calling for an AfD discussion. Hatchens (talk) 10:12, 14 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Businesspeople-related deletion discussions. Hatchens (talk) 10:12, 14 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of India-related deletion discussions. Hatchens (talk) 10:12, 14 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete AfD is the correct venue, though this would normally be a speedy deletiin candidate, AfD provides protection against re-creation.
None of the references are worth anything in establishing the alleged notabiity of the gentleman. We have pasisng mentions, blogs by him, one that is 404 error. This smacks of editing for pay, so I have applied a warnng template to the creating editor's talk page. The revision acceptd at AFC had a better than 50% chance of surviving an immediate deletion procrss (AFC brief to reviewers) so was a correct acceptance by the reviewer. Indeed no-one saw any problems with it for over a month, and after several more edits. I do not suggest we revert to that version, just to delete it Fiddle Faddle 10:44, 14 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • I have taken some time to analyse the references in detail from this permalink current at the time of analysis
Source assessment table:
Source Independent? Reliable? Significant coverage? Count source toward GNG?
https://www.bloomberg.com/profile/person/3502939 Yes Bloomberg has an excellent reputation, though it is also a news aggregator and carries verbatim press releases Yes Bloomberg has an excellent reputation ? This is an external verification of the subject's resume, but has nothing to do with his notabiity ? Unknown
https://www.rockefellerfoundation.org/people/ravi-venkatesan/ ~ 404 error ~ 404 error No 404 error ✘ No
https://www.newindianexpress.com/nation/2018/sep/28/ravi-venkatesan-appointed-unicefs-special-representative-of-young-people-1878383.html No this ia a paced PR article - press release No PR Yes Good coverage, but PR ✘ No
https://massentrepreneurship.org/about-us/ravi-venkatesan/ No He founded the org No This is the founder's profile Yes Good coverage, suitable for uncontested facts ✘ No
https://unitus.vc/team/ No He is a ventyure partner No Thsi is almost certanoly created by the subject Yes Good coverage, suitable for uncontested facts ✘ No
https://www.livemint.com/Companies/CrzMaOAEiGUAOAggo9vNFK/Let-PSU-manage-themselves-says-BoB-chief-Ravi-Venkatesan.html No The is a press release via Bloomberg No Press release No By definition a press release is not significant coverage ✘ No
https://www.livemint.com/companies/start-ups/arkam-ventures-gets-rs-325-crore-for-its-fund-to-invest-in-early-stage-technology-startups-11591559097123.html Yes Named writer Yes does not appear to be a paid article No Passng mention ✘ No
https://www.financialexpress.com/industry/sme/msme-eodb-30-per-cent-of-stimulus-package-must-be-released-for-micro-and-small-units-says-game-task-force/2007496/ Yes Named writer Yes Named writer No Passing mention ✘ No
https://smefutures.com/nitin-gadkari-announced-recommendation-report-to-boost-the-msme-sector/ Yes Named writer Yes Presuned relaibale No one passing mention, and some interview statements by the subject ✘ No
https://www.livemint.com/news/india/fixing-msmes-crucial-for-atma-nirbhar-bharat-taking-on-china-ravi-venkatesan-11593347760776.html Yes Named writer No Interview with the subject No The interview is the main thrust of the artticle ✘ No
https://www.amazon.com/Conquering-Chaos-Win-India-Everywhere/dp/1422184307?donateandsmile=1 No Sales site for a book by the subject No Book sales are not reliable No Self promtion book blurb ✘ No
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/blogs/author/ravivenkatesan/ No Blog blurb by the subject No Blog blurb by the subject No Blog blurb by the subject ✘ No
This table may not be a final or consensus view; it may summarize developing consensus, or reflect assessments of a single editor. Created using {{source assess table}}.
Unfortunately this shows that the creating editor and I differ about the qualifty of sourcing. This is the level of diligence Wikipedia requires when assessing references, though it is not often formalised in this manner. I have not sought additional references. The onus is on those who wish to verify notabikity to provide those, so I ask them to use the same diligence Fiddle Faddle 18:52, 14 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Responding to above comment, I want to call out that the above post is not truly evaluating notability because the post is looking at links that have been used to prove specific points rather than links that point to the subject's general notability. E.g. The link to his book, was a link from a bookstore. The link showing his current designation is a link to his profile on a related website. Those should not be reasons to disallow his notability. However, I have taken a shot at filling a table proving that there are significant sources to prove notability and all with mainstream reliable media sources. With this I believe that the subject definitely meets the WP:GNG guidelines for WP:NOTABILITY and should continue to remain. In summary, the WP:GNG guidelines emphasizes a) reliable sources b) Independent of the subject c) signficant coverage d) multitude of those sources -- all of whom are met by this subject. Please see table below.
Source assessment table:
Source Independent? Reliable? Significant coverage? Count source toward GNG?
https://www.financialexpress.com/industry/ravi-venkatesan-quits-infosys-board-a-look-at-his-professional-journey-so-far/1164597/ Yes Financial Express w/ Named Author Yes Financial Express satisfies reliability tests for Financial News in India Yes Article fully devoded to subject, and not just a passing mention. ✔ Yes
https://indianexpress.com/article/world/indians-abroad/ravi-venkatesan-joins-rockefeller-foundation-board/ Yes Syndicated article from Press Trust of India Yes Reliability checks for both Indian Express as well as Press Trust of India (news agency akin to Reuters, AP etc. but focused on India) Yes Entire article devoted to subject being inducted into the Rockefeller Foundation with quotes attributed to key existing members and leaders of the foundation ✔ Yes
https://www.livemint.com/news/india/fixing-msmes-crucial-for-atma-nirbhar-bharat-taking-on-china-ravi-venkatesan-11593347760776.html Yes Source is a named author independent of the subject Yes Livemint is a reliable publication in India for Financial news Yes Entire article is dedicated to subject's views as opposed to just a passing mention ✔ Yes
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/company/corporate-trends/ex-infosys-independent-director-ravi-venkatesan-in-talks-for-a-big-role-at-amazon-india/articleshow/64151465.cms Yes Article by named author independent of the subject Yes Economic Times is a reliable Financial newspaper in India and part of the Times of India group Yes Entire article is on the subject and is not just a passing mention ✔ Yes


https://www.livemint.com/Companies/LJ63TYZl75qUsnnWZgeXWJ/Ravi-Venkatesan-resigns-as-independent-director-of-Infosys.html Yes Source is a named author independent of the subject Yes Livemint is a reliable publication in India for Financial news Yes Entire article is dedicated to subject's views as opposed to just a passing mention ✔ Yes
https://www.thehindu.com/business/Industry/ravi-venkatesan-who-is-bridging-the-gap-at-infosys/article18446789.ece Yes Source is a named author independent of the subject Yes The Hindu is a reliable newspaper in India Yes Entire article is dedicated to subject and subject's actions as opposed to just a passing mention ✔ Yes
This table may not be a final or consensus view; it may summarize developing consensus, or reflect assessments of a single editor. Created using {{source assess table}}.

Ktin (talk) 01:23, 15 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]


  • Comment. Before I respond with the reasons why this article should be 'kept', I want to first answer the COI / Paid editing charge above. I have responded both on my talk page User talk:Ktin#August 2020 and on my user page that I do not have a COI with any of the articles that I edit and I also certify that I am not paid for any of my actions on this site. Ktin (talk) 15:03, 14 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Ktin, I accept the assertion made here and on your talk page. I have left you a personal comment not relevant to this AfD there Fiddle Faddle 15:51, 14 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep. The subject of the article is a prominent business executive and passes WP:NBIO requirements as well as WP:NOTABILITY. Specifically, he has been the Chairman of Microsoft India, Chairman of Bank of Baroda, and co-chairman of the board at Infosys Technologies amongst a few other. These are significant leadership positions. Furthermore, he has significant media coverage, over and above passing mentions. This meets the notability guideline as called out at WP:NOTE.
Some examples of coverage that is notable and are independent of the topic:
Newspapers and Web based media
  1. - LiveMint [1] [2]
  2. - The Indian Express / Financial Express [3] [4]
  3. - The Economic Times [5] [6] [7]
  4. - The Hindu / The Hindu Business Line [8] [9] [10]
All of the above sources are independent of the subject, and are more than a passing mention.
He is in the similar category of Indian Business Executives as the following folks (just indicative) -- S. D. Shibulal, Kris Gopalakrishnan, and most folks in this Category:20th-century_Indian_businesspeople and Category:21st-century Indian businesspeople.
Quality Concerns - This can be a legitimate concern. However, the article has been written with WP:NPOV in mind, without making it seem like a WP:PROMO. However, if there is targeted feedback / recommended changes - these can be worked in parallel when this article is live. This article is a stub, or a start class article, and that can definitely be expanded.
Cheers.
Ktin (talk) 18:16, 14 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Ktin, If you care to scroll up you will see that we have a different opinion of the referencing. I do not say, nor does the table, that I am correct. What I say and it says is that our opinions differ. Fiddle Faddle 19:00, 14 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Timtrent,
Yes, these seem to have been added after my last edit. I am sure we can rewrite the table based on the ten links that I have just added. So, if it is a matter of augmenting these links to the article -- we can definitely do that. Ktin (talk) 19:08, 14 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Ktin, I will not re-analyse further referencing, it's hard work. I'll leave it to you to seek to ensure that the notability is correctly asserted and verified It is better references that are required, not more. And some may usefully be set aside. Fiddle Faddle 19:10, 14 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Summarizing my note: In summary, the WP:GNG guidelines emphasizes a) reliable sources b) Independent of the subject c) signficant coverage d) multitude of those sources -- all of whom are met by this subject. Please see the source-assessment-table (pasted below again, for readability).
Source assessment table:
Source Independent? Reliable? Significant coverage? Count source toward GNG?
https://www.financialexpress.com/industry/ravi-venkatesan-quits-infosys-board-a-look-at-his-professional-journey-so-far/1164597/ Yes Financial Express w/ Named Author Yes Financial Express satisfies reliability tests for Financial News in India Yes Article fully devoded to subject, and not just a passing mention. ✔ Yes
https://indianexpress.com/article/world/indians-abroad/ravi-venkatesan-joins-rockefeller-foundation-board/ Yes Syndicated article from Press Trust of India Yes Reliability checks for both Indian Express as well as Press Trust of India (news agency akin to Reuters, AP etc. but focused on India) Yes Entire article devoted to subject being inducted into the Rockefeller Foundation with quotes attributed to key existing members and leaders of the foundation ✔ Yes
https://www.livemint.com/news/india/fixing-msmes-crucial-for-atma-nirbhar-bharat-taking-on-china-ravi-venkatesan-11593347760776.html Yes Source is a named author independent of the subject Yes Livemint is a reliable publication in India for Financial news Yes Entire article is dedicated to subject's views as opposed to just a passing mention ✔ Yes
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/company/corporate-trends/ex-infosys-independent-director-ravi-venkatesan-in-talks-for-a-big-role-at-amazon-india/articleshow/64151465.cms Yes Article by named author independent of the subject Yes Economic Times is a reliable Financial newspaper in India and part of the Times of India group Yes Entire article is on the subject and is not just a passing mention ✔ Yes


https://www.livemint.com/Companies/LJ63TYZl75qUsnnWZgeXWJ/Ravi-Venkatesan-resigns-as-independent-director-of-Infosys.html Yes Source is a named author independent of the subject Yes Livemint is a reliable publication in India for Financial news Yes Entire article is dedicated to subject's views as opposed to just a passing mention ✔ Yes
https://www.thehindu.com/business/Industry/ravi-venkatesan-who-is-bridging-the-gap-at-infosys/article18446789.ece Yes Source is a named author independent of the subject Yes The Hindu is a reliable newspaper in India Yes Entire article is dedicated to subject and subject's actions as opposed to just a passing mention ✔ Yes
This table may not be a final or consensus view; it may summarize developing consensus, or reflect assessments of a single editor. Created using {{source assess table}}.
Ktin (talk) 02:27, 15 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment While I imagine it will conclude too late for this deletion discussion I have started a discussion about Livemint in the Reliable Sources arena. My opinion clearly differs from that of another editor. Consensus is required from editors wise in assessing sources for futire reference. Fiddle Faddle 07:46, 15 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    Without making this a referendum on Livemint, I want to say that the link / article being considered seems to be a syndication of an article with a named author by-line from Bloomberg viz. this one and not a press-release. I am assuming that just like with any other syndication, there are due partnering agreements in place - Nothing wrong with that per se. Now, if there is an assertion that the latter article is not a piece of original reporting, that charge should be attributed to Bloomberg. Cheers. Ktin (talk) 12:21, 15 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment In addition, WP:CONTEXTMATTERS is important when assessing sources. Fiddle Faddle 07:52, 15 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, T. Canens (talk) 04:45, 22 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Eddie891 Talk Work 14:02, 30 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep: I agree with Ktin, the subject seems to an important person in Indian business circles. He meets WP:GNG and WP:BIO with or without LiveMint being treated as RS. However LiveMint is definitely one of the top business newspaper in India. His chairmanship of three companies itself is enough to make him notable according to WP:NBUSINESSPEOPLE (Infosys is the 5th largest Indian company by market cap being part of both SENSEX and Nifty-50 index, Bank of Baroda is the 3rd largest Bank in India by its business size, Microsoft has a large presence in India due to its market size and talent). His departure from Infosys itself seems to made a huge noise in Indian financial papers. --Roller26 (talk) 00:27, 31 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep: The stature of this fellow in India is significant by way of the corporations he has headed up. Infosys and the Bank of Baroda are huge institutions, and I find that this fellow passes WP:BIO and WP:GNG. I am not terribly taken by the references, but there are other - most significant reasons - to find this fellow passes WP:BIO and WP:GNG -- Whiteguru (talk) 11:38, 31 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep - I agree with all the keep arguments made above. - Aaqib Anjum Aafī (talk) 15:34, 2 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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