Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Pythagoras Award

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. slakr^\ talk / 02:27, 22 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Pythagoras Award[edit]

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A non-notable award from Bulgaria. All of the information comes from either Facebook or the Bulgarian government website. Prod removed by author. Bradv 05:38, 18 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

This award seems to attract quite a bit of news coverage. 86.17.222.157 (talk) 09:05, 18 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

~~Delete~~ Weak keep: There is also an Italian one [1]. Neither seems quite notable enough for the English wikipedia. — Gamall Wednesday Ida (t · c) 13:14, 19 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The notability or otherwise of the local Italian award of this name has no bearing on that of the national Bulgarian award, which, as I said above, has received loads of press coverage. The notability guidelines of the English Wikipedia do not depend in any way on the country with which a subject is associated or the language in which sources are available. 86.17.222.157 (talk) 20:33, 19 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Throwing a massive google search at people is hardly ideal (WP:GHITS). Some of the results farther down pertain to an Australian tennis competition, for pity's sake (Роджър Федерер потвърди участието си на Australian Open). Out of the first four results, the first seems to be about about a guy being awarded the French "Palmes Académiques" (it's mentionned in passing that he has the Pythagoras too), and the fourth is about schoolkids having a math competition and being divided into three teams, called "Archimedes"," Euclid " and "Pythagoras". Only the second and third hits are about the award / a guy being given it. Another random entry is about something else, and the Pythagoras is mentioned in passing among the guy's accomplishments. It would be muuuuch better if you could find *one* good source rather than many bad ones. (Preferably in English, or at the very least with a translation provided, per WP:NOENG). — Gamall Wednesday Ida (t · c) 21:53, 19 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Meanwhile, I have found more references to this in English sources. Switching to Weak keep. Weak because the notability still appears low, and the current shape of the article is terrible, so it might be better off if rewritten from scratch. — Gamall Wednesday Ida (t · c) 22:04, 19 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think that I was "throwing a massive google search" at people. Four of the first five sources found by my Google News search (note "Google News" rather than a web search for which 99% of results will be unreliable) have coverage of this award, as do most of the rest. Look at the vast majority of those results that are on target rather than the few false positives. 86.17.222.157 (talk) 22:21, 19 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

"Mention in passing" is not "coverage", so 3 out of 5 (admittedly, a mention is an indirect indicator of notability). It gets better going further down, though. All in all, it appears that the sample of hits I looked at in more detail earlier was quite unlucky (2 out of 6, with two egregiously off-topic). The award is clearly not world-renowned, and it's only 8 years old, but it seems notable enough in Bulgaria, and that is sufficient for inclusion here. (Though again, the article in its current state needs a lot of work, but that's not in itself an argument for deletion). — Gamall Wednesday Ida (t · c) 22:41, 19 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I have cleaned up the article a little bit, so that it looks like a readable correctly formatted stub (we definitely don't need a long list of winners, unless they are notable). I'm not terribly interested in the subject however, so I don't plan on going farther. — Gamall Wednesday Ida (t · c) 23:13, 19 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. Thanks to Gamall Wednesday Ida for doing the work that I didn't have the time or inclination to do. I am far from fluent in Bulgarian but my knowledge of Russian, and so the Cyrillic alphabet, was enough to see that there were plenty of news sources covering this award. 86.17.222.157 (talk) 21:18, 20 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Science-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple (talk) 04:04, 21 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. Not enough evidence of notability. Xxanthippe (talk) 04:32, 21 November 2016 (UTC).[reply]

What about the evidence, consisting of hundreds of news sources, discussed above is not enough? 86.17.222.157 (talk) 21:36, 21 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Too minor. Not a major prize. Xxanthippe (talk) 21:39, 21 November 2016 (UTC).[reply]

Once again you have not addressed the available sources, which are what determine notability. And why do you dismiss a national Bulgarian prize as "too minor". Would you do the same about an equivalent national prize in, say, Ireland or New Zealand, which have much smaller populations than Bulgaria? 86.17.222.157 (talk) 21:48, 21 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

A couple of links in English: [2], [3], and an auto-translated one [4]. There are plenty of the same type to be found. This is an official prize by the Bulgarian government, the ceremony for which involves the Deputy Prime Minister of Bulgaria (for instance Daniela Bobeva and Meglena Kuneva at two ceremonies I've read about) and the Minister of Education and Science (eg Todor Tanev), and it is deemed worth making announcements about by non-Bulgarian universities when one of their members gets it. It's clearly not the Nobel, Fields or Turing, but it's a serious thing nonetheless. A serious national award from a European state in good standing should definitely be included here. — Gamall Wednesday Ida (t · c) 00:40, 22 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Sandstein 13:46, 26 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bulgaria-related deletion discussions. Shawn in Montreal (talk) 19:29, 30 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Sandstein 09:17, 4 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect to Ministry of Education and Science (Bulgaria). Looking at the above conversation, I don't see any sources that establish notability as they are all just passing mentions of the award. Those would be good enough to mention on individual BLP's that someone got the award, but the award itself doesn't appear to have standalone notability. If this was notable for an award, there should be sources delving into the history of the award, why it was established, etc. Maybe in the future that will happen since it was only founded in 2009, but not yet. Kingofaces43 (talk) 22:53, 4 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. and no need to redirect. There is no article on it in the Bulgarian WP, tho they have several articles on people that mention they won the prize. DGG ( talk ) 19:45, 12 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Keep there are sources listed above which are enough to show this meets WP:N. This award seems fairly well known (or at least folks winning it seem to be commonly reported) Hobit (talk) 13:23, 21 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.