Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Purgatory (band)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 01:10, 29 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Purgatory (band)[edit]

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Obviously, a little-known metal band. I haven't found any reliable source for them. I think it doesn't work WP:BAND. Crystallizedh, 22:49 — Preceding undated comment added 12 January 2023 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Discussion was not properly transcluded to the log until now. * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 04:20, 14 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 04:20, 14 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Bands and musicians and Indonesia. ––FormalDude (talk) 06:53, 14 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - They are not as "obviously" unknown as the nominator says, because they are mentioned fairly often in heavy metal history discussions as a very early metal band from Indonesia. This requires a targeted search along the lines of <"Purgatory" + "metal" + "Indonesia" + 'Lutfie">. But despite a lengthy career, I was surprised to find that they have not achieved any coverage beyond fan-style blogs and brief placements in a few lists of Indonesian metal bands, of which there are now many more. Alas, it looks like they were left behind by a music scene that they may have created themselves. They just don't have the reliable coverage necessary here, unless anyone finds something in different languages. ---DOOMSDAYER520 (TALK|CONTRIBS) 16:01, 15 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Keep While I agree with Doomsdayer520 that the band may have been left behind by the music scene, I find their name mentioned in a number of sources below. These may not be significant coverage individually, but together they do point to evidence of some level of general notability. —Arsonal (talk + contribs)— 02:46, 20 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Global Pop, Local Language, p. 56: "Indonesian underground bands usually choose English monikers that stylistically resemble those of Western groups; examples include Burger Kill, Vindictive Emperor, [...] and Purgatory."
Routledge Handbook of Islam in the West, p. 443: "Once again, Muslim metal bands seem to be more popular in Muslim-majority countries than in the diaspora. For example, Indonesia has the Islamic metal band Purgatory, which combines classic trash with devotion to Allah and stated aversion to Western decadence – despite the Western clothing and appearance of band members."
The Bloomsbury Handbook of Rock Music Research, p. 478: "Spearheaded by metal groups Tengkorak and Purgatory, the One-Fingered Metal (Metal Satu Jari) movement, combining Islamic piety with metallic riffs, peaked around 2011 and subsequently declined."
Discus: Anomali Dunia Rock Indonesia, pp. 94–98 (in Indonesian), recounts how Sony Music Entertainment Indonesia and progressive rock enthusiasts under the banner of the Indonesia Progressive Society (IPS) collaborated to record and publish albums by four groups, one of them Purgatory.

Thanks for respecting my vote and I will do the same for you. Alas, I must point out WP:SIGCOV, which requires not just reliable sources, but reliable sources that provide information that can be developed into an encyclopedic article. Those books are good finds but I don't think they get beyond the "listing" effect from my vote above. Purgatory is again mentioned (your term) as an early Indonesian metal band, with no more meat to chew on, as it were. ---DOOMSDAYER520 (TALK|CONTRIBS) 15:04, 20 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting. It appears that sources don't add up to GNG but I'd like to hear from more editors working in the music area.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 03:56, 21 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I had more luck searching for sources on Google Scholar. There appear to be more in-depth analyses of the band, the broader metal scene, and their music there.

James, Kieran; Walsh, Rex John (September 2018). "Islamic Religion and Death Metal Music in Indonesia". Journal of Popular Music Studies. 30 (3). University of California Press: 129–152. doi:10.1525/jpms.2018.200007.
James, Kieran; Walsh, Rex (May 2019). "Religion and heavy metal music in Indonesia". Popular Music. 38 (2). Cambridge University Press: 276–297. doi:10.1017/S0261143019000102. (Free access through WP:LIBRARY)
Nur Rahmat, Sujud Puji; Simatupang, G. R. Lono Lastoro; Harsawibawa, Albertus (December 2017). "Musik Metal dan Nilai Religius Islam: Tinjauan Estetika Musik Bermuatan Islami dalam Penampilan Purgatory" [Metal Music and Islamic Religious Values: An Aesthetic Review of Islamic Music in Purgatory Appearances]. Resital: Jurnal Seni Pertunjukan [Recital: Journal of Performing Arts] (in Indonesian). 18 (3). Indonesian Institute of the Arts, Yogyakarta: 133–143. doi:10.24821/resital.v18i3.3338. (Free access)
Sujudi, Anis (May 2020). "Hibridisasi Heavy Metal dan Islam: Tranformasi Band Metal Sebagai Lahirnya Metal Islam di Indonesia" [The Hybridization of Heavy Metal and Islam: The Transformation of Metal Bands as the Birth of Islamic Metal in Indonesia]. Intermestic: Journal of International Studies (in Indonesian). 4 (2). Padjadjaran University: 201–221. doi:10.24198/intermestic.v4n2.6. (Free access)

I also count at least a dozen theses from the past ten years covering the band and the religious nature of their music. Examples include [1] [2] [3] [4] [5] [6] [7]. Not all of these could used to source an article per WP:SCHOLARSHIP, but perhaps the band isn't as forgotten as we think. WP:WORLDVIEW might also be obscuring some sources, given that this is an "underground" band from the non-English-speaking global south. —Arsonal (talk + contribs)— 16:47, 21 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Keep as per the above mentioned sources we appear to have enough book coverage and multiple academic theses to pass WP:GNG so that deletion is unnecessary in my view, Atlantic306 (talk) 23:35, 25 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.