Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Political appointments by Joe Biden

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was redirect to [transition of Joe Biden]. It can be undone when its time for this. Until then lets keep content in one place Spartaz ^Humbug! 21:51, 16 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Political appointments by Joe Biden[edit]

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Too soon. Biden doesn't take over for 2 months. This article will be empty until then. JDDJS (talk to me • see what I've done) 22:17, 8 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Politics-related deletion discussions. JDDJS (talk to me • see what I've done) 22:17, 8 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Speedy Keep. WP:TOOSOON is an essay, not official policy. Political appointments – broadly construed – will begin with members of the Biden Transition team, including a Coronavirus transition team task force that was just announced. Nominating this page for deletion after it has existed for under 24 hours, without allowing any significant expansion to take place, is unproductive. KidAd talk 22:29, 8 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

It's simply too soon for an article. Anything useful can be merged to Presidential transition of Joe Biden for now, and this can stay as a draft. However, he will not be appointing any ambassadors for another 2 months, therefore this article is not going to contain any meaningful content that cannot be included in the transition article until then. JDDJS (talk to me • see what I've done) 23:24, 8 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

WP:TOOSOON is not policy. It is an essay. KidAd talk 23:26, 8 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

WP:DELREASON#6 is a policy, as is WP:NOTFUTURE. TompaDompa (talk) 23:52, 8 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Fair enough, but "political appointments" are already being made. As more individuals are added to the transition team, which already includes a newly-established COVID task force, the page will grow. I can only work so fast. Additionally, WP:NOTFUTURE clearly states Individual scheduled or expected future events should be included only if the event is notable and almost certain to take place. KidAd talk 23:57, 8 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I wouldn't exactly consider the transition team "political appointments", but I suppose that's debatable. What individual appointment are you saying is almost certain to take place? TompaDompa (talk) 00:35, 9 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

What individual appointment are you saying is almost certain to take place? Every appointment the president makes, from Attorney General to Administrator of the FAA to White House Press Secretary to Director of the National Economic Council. These are political appointments that are certain to happen when the president-elect becomes president. This satisfies the WP:NOTFUTURE requirement (Individual scheduled or expected future events should be included only if the event is notable and almost certain to take place). KidAd talk 00:42, 9 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I hardly think it satisfies that requirement without us knowing who will be appointed. The position is only half of the puzzle, the person is the other (absolutely necessary) half. TompaDompa (talk) 00:48, 9 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

WP:NOTFUTURE states that events that are certain to take place are notable. Your preference that specific individuals be named is not included in that policy. KidAd talk 00:53, 9 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The point is that there is no appointment without a person being appointed. The event includes both the person and the position. Person X being appointed to position A is not the same event as person Y being appointed to position A nor person X being appointed to position B. Likewise, the inauguration of Joe Biden is not the same event as the second inauguration of Donald Trump. TompaDompa (talk) 00:58, 9 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Talk about Moving the goalposts. The appointments are certain. That is all WP:NOTFUTURE (which you cited) requires. KidAd talk 01:05, 9 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The appointments are only certain if you think that appointing different people to the same position counts as the same appointment, hence my analogy with the January 20, 2021 inauguration. TompaDompa (talk) 01:08, 9 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Exceedingly weak keep it's too soon now, but likely that there will be talk by the time the AFD period closes. List of federal judges appointed by Joe Biden (which has a PROD) is the clearer TOOSOON in my opinion. power~enwiki (π, ν) 22:34, 8 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of United States of America-related deletion discussions. Spiderone 22:41, 8 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Comment If there is no consensus to keep, Redirect to Presidential transition of Joe Biden. KidAd talk 05:05, 9 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Draftify - Best solution for the "too soon" concerns. Foxnpichu (talk) 15:04, 9 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Delete It is too soon for this article. We should not have unused filler articles just because of ancicipated changes in the future, we should only have articles that currently have content.John Pack Lambert (talk) 15:41, 9 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

As I have said before, WP:TOOSOON is not official policy. "Political appointments" are already being made, and the page will continue to expand. KidAd talk 19:10, 9 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

He didn't even mention WP:TOOSOON. The article clearly states "In addition to members of his cabinet, this list will also include individuals nominated who do not serve as cabinet officials but still must be confirmed by the United States Senate" implying that having to be confirmed by the Senate is the guideline to counting for this list, but the Senate isn't going to start confirming until he's actually the president. JDDJS (talk to me • see what I've done) 19:37, 9 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

He mentioned too soon with the words It is too soon for this article. In my opinion, it was too soon to nominate this page for deletion. KidAd talk 23:08, 9 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Draftify and let it incubate. It's an almost certain event and just a matter of time. - The9Man ^(Talk) 06:57, 10 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Appointments and announcements of appointments will be made/speculation of appointees already have significant media coverage. --Enos733 (talk) 17:55, 10 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Delete WP:SPECULATION policy, WP:NOTNEWS policy. KidAd is a primary proponent of these listicles, across multiple XfD. None of these are political appointments, as the transition is not part of the administration, and these are volunteers. Besides, this will never be a well populated article, as there are 9,000 of these jobs, and almost none of them will be WP:NOTABLE.
William Allen Simpson (talk) 01:19, 12 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Keep nothing in this is speculative, nor is it mere fleeting news, rather a sequel to Political appointments by Donald Trump (though that needs some work as it only lists those incumbent at the end of the term). While it's unclear if it should be listing every member of volunteer boards as political appointments, it's obvious this will have more legitimate information very soon. Reywas92^Talk 01:37, 12 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Any notion that this page is "speculation" is moot. Biden has named his Chief of Staff. KidAd talk 01:55, 12 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Not true. He will have a chief of staff on Jan 20th. Until then, speculation. All the rest currently on this page are volunteers, not political appointments. Most will always be volunteers, not political appointees. These are technical terms, enshrined in law. Proof by assertion will not make it otherwise.
William Allen Simpson (talk) 22:11, 13 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to Presidential transition of Joe Biden. — Emperork (talk) 01:30, 13 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Weak keep As this entire AfD revolves around whether the article is too soon or not, so I checked - the Trump page was created on 26 November 2016. I don't think either of them needed to be created until the term starts, but I can't in good conscience say there's a WP:CRYSTAL failure. SportingFlyer T·C 18:49, 14 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Man, there are so many different types of !votes here, with everybody having a different idea on how to handle the article. Foxnpichu (talk) 21:31, 14 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Is it just me or is everyone trying to delete Biden-related presidency articles created by KidAd? cookie monster (2020) 755 19:34, 15 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I don't take it personally, especially because arguments for deletion have been generally flimsy and efforts have not been very successful thus far. KidAd talk 19:36, 15 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Draftify When Biden begins to name Cabinet appointees, this can be moved to article space, for now, it's not very helpful. It's also poorly formatted (The COVID-19 task force is listed twice). I will copy-paste this page to my sandbox if there are no objections, so that we don't have to start completely from scratch if it's deleted instead of draftified. --Squeeps10 ^{Talk to me}_{My edits} 04:36, 16 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.