Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Pete Stauber

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. Randykitty (talk) 11:59, 19 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Pete Stauber[edit]

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I believe this article fails WP:NPOL and should be deleted per WP:POLOUTCOMES. I thought that perhaps it would meet WP:NATHLETE because of his professional hockey career, but according to this source, although he was signed by the Detroit Red Wings, he never played in an NHL game (minor leagues only). This is the type of congressional candidate page that keeps popping up in the apparent excitement of election season, but we really shouldn't have pages on candidates who haven't actually won office. And his current gig, county commissioner, is too minor to confer notability. Marquardtika (talk) 21:58, 31 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Minnesota-related deletion discussions. Eastmain (talk • contribs) 23:09, 31 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. Eastmain (talk • contribs) 23:09, 31 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Hockey-related deletion discussions. Eastmain (talk • contribs) 23:10, 31 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Politicians-related deletion discussions. Eastmain (talk • contribs) 23:10, 31 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Delete unelected candidates for the US house are not notable for such, and nothing else about Stauber adds to notability. Wikipedia is not a place to host campaign bios.John Pack Lambert (talk) 01:05, 1 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Keep He is an elected official and former hockey player. Yes, he is simply a candidate for House right now. This article I created could be improved, but I would say he is notable enough to warrant an article. Billybob2002 (talk) 02:42, 1 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]
delete Doesn't meet the GNG or the notability standards for hockey players or politicians. Local elected officials and candidates for higher office are not automatically notable. Coverage is normal for his position and candidacy.Sandals1 (talk) 15:05, 1 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Delete doesn't meet WP:NPOL, hockey notability guidelines, or WP:GNG. If he wins in November, no problem with recreating the article. SportingFlyer talk 21:12, 1 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Comment I'm also fine with a redirect to the election as well, but again he fails WP:NHOCKEY, excluding all of the hockey sources, and the political coverage appears WP:ROUTINE for a candidate, so I'm still a strong not-keep. SportingFlyer talk 01:32, 11 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. Candidates for Congress do not get Wikipedia articles just for being candidates — he'll certainly qualify for an article in November if he wins the seat, but being a candidate is not enough in and of itself to already get him into Wikipedia today. But he doesn't have any strong claim of preexisting notability for other reasons, either: hockey players get articles if they play in the NHL, not if they sign with an NHL organization but then never actually get called up from the farm team, and county commissioners do not get an automatic free pass over WP:NPOL #2 just for existing: it's a role where the notability test is the depth of reliable sourcing that can or cannot be shown to make them special, not a role where every county commissioner gets guaranteed inclusion rights. So no prejudice against recreation in November if he wins, but nothing here is already enough today. Bearcat (talk) 14:02, 3 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Merge or redirect as we almost always do for this sort of candidate. He's not certain to win. Bearian (talk) 22:28, 3 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Note to closing editor kindly give me a little time take a stab at sourcing this one. If it turns out to have less notability that it looks as though he has , I'll be back to strike this request. Thanx.E.M.Gregory (talk) 19:53, 9 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I will be back to continue here, I hope that this discussion will be rolled over to allow editors to take a closer look. College hockey careers can garner SIGCOV without leading ot major league careers.E.M.Gregory (talk) 20:47, 9 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

WP:HEY, I have added some material on his hockey career (got some national attention in U.S. and Canada as a college player), and material on other aspects of the career of this police officer now running for Congress that have drawn press attention: he was shot (not badly wounded) while sitting in his squad car; elected to a seat on city council; also added some feature-type coverage: he was one of five brothers who played hockey (Robb Stauber,) and the moment when he exchanged zucchettos with the Pope.E.M.Gregory (talk) 12:04, 10 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Nope. He fails WP:NHOCKEY full stop, so we can't use these reports for notability when they wouldn't get him past WP:GNG for a hockey career. SportingFlyer talk 01:34, 11 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Keep As I continue to expand and source this article, I have become persuaded that his role in taking the smallest college ever to win a national championship in ice hockey - and coverage of his sporting career in general (some coverage national in U.S. and Canada - combine with WP:SIGCOV coverage of other aspects of his life and political career to make this one keep.E.M.Gregory (talk) 14:33, 10 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Note, that despite being annotated above as having been listed at Wikipedia:WikiProject Deletion sorting/Ice hockey, by some error it had not been done. I have just now listed it.E.M.Gregory (talk) 14:37, 10 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Keep as it satisfies GNG, so, even if he doesn't get elected, he has already reached notability. This can be confirmed by reliable sources, such as the Wall Street Journal and CBS, as well as KTTC, an NBC affiliate which highlight how Mike Pence is campaigning for him in Minnesota, added to the NYT source, already present in the article, which says how Donal Trump is campaigning for him, underline his importance as a candidate, and thus as a politician. Several websites highlight his political activity, and are also highlighting his sports achievements as well. We have additional sources in the article that establish notability. When you have GNG satisfied, you don't necessarily need WP:NPOL or WP:ATHLETE satisfied. --1l2l3k (talk) 17:09, 10 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Strong Redirect to United States House of Representatives elections in Minnesota, 2018#District 8. Keeps revision history if he wins, and most politicians who are notable only by being a candidate redirect to the election they're notable for. He may win given how 'red' the district is, but WP:CRYSTAL prevents that from keeping an article Redditaddict69 ^(talk) ^(cont) 17:12, 10 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

the argument for keeping is based on the unusually high level of INDEPTH, NATIONAL coverage that his candidacy is drawing - some of it since this AfD began, and on INDEPETH coverage of his college hockey career. These are both valid arguments for keeping articles on political candidates, which we do not infrequently where, as here, articles are improved with sources found during discussion. No editors have relied on a CRYSTAL BALL, making this a Straw man argument.E.M.Gregory (talk) 17:28, 10 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Note that since the last "delete" opinion was voiced, Vice President Pence has drawn national attention on this race by flying to Duluth to campaign for Stauber. Trump flew out to campaign for him in June. Because the Wall Street Journal story posted just 3 hours ago is paywalled, I'm going to coopy-paste a little of it here. The top of the story is a photo of this candidate at a campaign rally, the headline is In a Challenging Year for House Republicans, Party Sees Hope in Minnesota: "House Speaker Paul Ryan, said: 'I would argue that’s our best pickup opportunity in the country....President Trump is popular in the eighth district, which brushes up against the Canadian border and runs south through some of the nation’s richest mining country. Mines in the Mesabi Iron Range region are ramping up capacity to meet growing demand for ore in steel mills as far away as Lake Erie. The Republican running here for Mr. Nolan’s seat, Pete Stauber, has positioned himself as a strong ally of the president, and Mr. Trump has campaigned with him." And here is today's AP/Washington Post headline: Democrats’ hopes to take House could stumble in Minnesota Dems and the GOP are playing hardball, er... full strength ice hockey in this district, and it makes Stauber notable.E.M.Gregory (talk) 17:54, 10 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

While appreciative about the campaign update, this note doesn't add to the question about notability around the subject. Candidates are expected to receive press coverage (and even a being a legislative candidate making the NY Times doesn't necessarily lead to notability [see [1]]). The question is whether the coverage of the candidate receives coverage that is unusual (often expressed in whether the coverage makes international news) or (less so) that the candidate is broadly portrayed as being an exemplar of a larger point by multiple national media outlets (either as what they stand for or [lesser] as being innovative in their campaign [either their ads or approach]). In this case, a President or Vice President campaigning for a candidate of their own party is not unusual or unexpected. Where we often struggle with how to evaluate candidates is what pieces of verifiable, reliable sourced prior actions or activity (such as being a national champion winning coach, or business owner), a previous campaign, in addition to the current campaign make a person notable. --Enos733 (talk) 21:17, 10 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Point take, although, if you count Canada as a foreign country, Stauber had quite a bit of INDEPTH coverage in the international press during his ice Hockey career.E.M.Gregory (talk) 21:53, 10 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I am not taking a position on this AfD because I am not in a great position to evaluate the totality of the coverage about the subject's ice hockey career. To me only references 9 and 10 appear (based on their headline) to be INDEPTH about the subject, and not the championship game or the team. As an athlete, he does not meet the general requirements of WP:NSPORT, as he did not appear to achieve "preeminent honors" as a collegian, so the question is does the subject meet WP:GNG, and until I read those articles, I am not in a good position to judge. I also do believe there may be material about the subject's local political career that is not yet been added to the article. --Enos733 (talk) 00:01, 11 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Weak keep - I made some minor improvements, and taken as a whole, think there's just enough to meet WP:GNG. TimTempleton ^(talk) ^(cont) 22:16, 10 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Weak Keep. The Keep part is on account of WP:GNG and the Weak part is on account of WP:TOOSOON. -The Gnome (talk) 05:58, 11 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Sources and arguments seemingly not considered in the first part of the AfD have now come to light, and it would be helpful if further analysis was focused on these.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Vanamonde (talk) 10:03, 11 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Keep subject meets WP:GNG. Flibirigit (talk) 13:19, 11 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - has enough coverage in independent reliable sources to meet WP:GNG, which trumps the specialized notability guidelines. Rlendog (talk) 14:18, 13 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Comment While I'm not going to cast a decision either way on the subject, I will leave the following note. If he was assessed on just his ice hockey career it would be one of the easiest deletes that I've seen in a while, he never did anything of significance based on the criteria established by WP:NHOCKEY. Now as far as where he stands as a politician or with the WP:GNG, I'll leave that for the rest of you to decide. Deadman137 (talk) 17:49, 14 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]
NBC News yesterday, following Tuesday's primaries in several states, NBC picked 6 Top House races for November ... in MN-8 (the seat vacated by Dem Rick Nolan), Republican Pete Stauber will face Democrat Joe Radinovich". There are only a handful of hotly contested House races, because he is one of an even smaller number of elephants with a shot at flipping a donkey, he is getting extraordinary coverage. And there is preexisting INDEPTH that has been ONGOING since his days as a college hockey player.11:24, 16 August 2018 (UTC)
keep has received a lot of news coverage as well as multiple public mentions by the President. Clearly meets WP:GNG.desmay (talk) 16:24, 16 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - Run-of-the-mill unelected politician biography; consensus is clear about such fare. No GNG pass through participation on a collegiate hockey team, no matter how successful that unit was, as there was no substantial coverage of the subject himself in independent publications of presumed reliability. The 2018 American elections are upon us, here we go again. Carrite (talk) 12:32, 17 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Vanamonde (talk) 11:16, 19 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.