Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Park Cho-rong

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was redirect to A Pink. Any information worth merging to the main article is still available in the article histories. Randykitty (talk) 17:42, 21 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Park Cho-rong[edit]

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Person is not independently notable. Please redirect to the group, A Pink. Drmies (talk) 02:40, 21 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

OK, I went over the entire list: none of these people have done anything that makes them notable according to the GNG outside of their group membership. Drmies (talk) 02:52, 21 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. NorthAmerica¹⁰⁰⁰ 03:41, 21 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Actors and filmmakers-related deletion discussions. NorthAmerica¹⁰⁰⁰ 03:41, 21 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Korea-related deletion discussions. NorthAmerica¹⁰⁰⁰ 03:41, 21 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect. — Revi 04:23, 21 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

After reading the discussion below, I think we can keep. — Revi 04:16, 29 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

For Son Naeun, I disagree with the removal because based on WP:ENT, she is notable enough to have her own page. She has notable individual activities such as main cast in variety show, lead actress in Music videos and Dramas. Beside that, she also chosen as a model for couple of brand and won award as "Star of the Year" for her variety show and nominated for "Best new actress" for her drama.

Moreover, Will this deletion applied to all individual group member of other Kpop group too? For example Girl's generation, Girl's Day, EXO etc. i still saw their individual member page even though some of them have similar individual activities with Apink members. For those member who have less notable individual activities, maybe can we do something like this? [1] --Sonflower0210 (talk) 09:18, 21 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with Sonflower0210. --EliOrni (talk) 10:14, 21 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I personally think all the nominated pages can be deleted, except Son Na-eun, who looks quite enciclopedic. --Chiya⁹² 15:16, 21 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Comment it's not a technical WP valid reason, but please note the 7 countries/languages which have listed her. This is slightly outside the usual Kpop PR machine context. Mild keep-Augustabreeze (talk) 16:04, 21 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Comment -- the issue with many of these articles is that they use sources like Allkpop which is unacceptable for Wikipedia. They have a disclaimer that states: "Information on this site may or may not be true and allkpop makes no warranty as to the validity of any claims".... It's possible to replace such sources with legit ones but it will take time and a lot of effort from a Korean member who can understand the Korean articles. I think with proper sourcing the solo pages would follow WP:N but a list page may make more sense for now. SKS (talk) 03:58, 22 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
IMDB link added. I now formally alter position to keep. -Augustabreeze (talk) 14:15, 22 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
- Augustabreeze, I don't know to which article you added something or which one you are proposing to keep. In addition, IMDB is not considered a reliable source on Wikipedia, and it certainly does not add the kind of in-depth discussion required by our notability guidelines. Drmies (talk) 18:01, 22 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  - Drmies, I am cognisant that project is under regular assault by the Kpop publishing machine. However, I have added yet another mainstream link. There is Korean Herald coverage on this actress, as well as the Maeil Broadcasting Network which is a nationwide television network in SK. This is not an indie artist struggling to get free publicity. This is a known face/name in SK, and the Portuguese and French have also written articles about her--technically not a WP valid reason, but evidence of international reputation. Brazil knows this woman. It is not a 19 teen year old doing half an hour of self-released youtube a day. With addition of MBN coverage, I reiterate keep. Thank you-Augustabreeze (talk) 08:18, 24 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Comment -- For Yoon Bomi and Park Chorong, I would think that the pages should be kept because they've done enough individual activities (Chorong has acted on quite a few dramas and Bomi has been an MC and member of many variety shows). Moreover, they will most likely continue doing more so I think it would only make sense to keep their pages. - Therealdeepi (talk)
- For all AfD readers, please note that the above comment is a technical keep. Thank you, -Augustabreeze (talk) 08:21, 24 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Any passing admin (Northamerica1000, you around?), please close this--I withdraw. We got comments that don't clearly indicate who should be kept and who shouldn't, and we got Augustabreeze dictating how someone else's comment should be read, as if they were a mind reader. I'll take care of them individually. Drmies (talk) 15:11, 24 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect: I support redirecting these to A Pink, except Son Na-eun who may be notable. --Random86 (talk) 04:20, 27 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.
Relisting comment: The nominator has withdrawn, but the discussion has received some !votes for redirection, so a speedy keep close doesn't quite qualify.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, NorthAmerica¹⁰⁰⁰ 03:00, 28 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Park Cho-rong and Son Na-eun as they seem to have become sufficiently notable as individuals. Not so sure about the others. --PanchoS (talk) 13:57, 28 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect:Park Cho-rong and Son Na-eun are no Independent activities of the Group ,Please redirect to the group, A Pink.(سعيدس (talk) 08:00, 30 December 2014 (UTC))[reply]

Keep Park Cho-rong and Son Na-eun. They are notable enough to remain having an article. Rongderp (talk) 16:04, 30 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Delete except possibly Son Na-eun. All others have no notability outside A Pink. A few cameos and visits to variety shows does not equal notability. Son Na-eun was nominated for some legit acting awards and won some for variety show work. So she might pass the notability test. The awards are referenced to allkpop, but could possibly be confirmed on the award website for accuracy. But is an award for 'We Got Married' really notable? Was that award covered in any reliable sources outside of the awards' own website and gossip sites? If not, then it's not enough to establish notability. Shinyang-i (talk) 01:37, 31 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Reiterate keep; Chosun Ilbo coverage; independent feature-length film movie 2009 / imdb.com; Park Cho-rong is an independent actress, a subject independently without any other A Cube members of media coverage. AfD is not a vote and PCR passes WP:MUSIC notability guidelines including article 12, article 1, etc etc etc. A total of FIVE national-level newspapers or broadcast channels independently covering her without any reference or pictures of other A Cube members. -Augustabreeze (talk) 12:33, 1 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Delete (all) as non-notable. --L235 (talk) Ping when replying 18:12, 1 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Again again and again and again again and again. AfD is not a vote. AfD is not a vote. You must specifically cite WP process regulations contradicting last known commentary if reversing on the consensus. Thank you. Please also see The Caraway Group ongoing AfD process breakdown. AfD readers please note that many of the Delete comments above are new accounts/ possible socks. -08:46, 2 January 2015 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Augustabreeze (talk • contribs)
- Augustabreeze, I'm not sure why you are so worked up over this. None of the accounts that have posted here look suspicious to me. --Random86 (talk) 08:50, 2 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  - 86, [user] does nothing but vote deletes and has all of 7 edits, zero content contribution. The Caraway Group has also degenerated into a "horse-racing" contest where the closing admin just counted "2 deletes, 1 keep" okay it's finished. AfD is not a vote. It is about confirmation of two independent national-level media sources. Thanks eight six -08:56, 2 January 2015 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Augustabreeze (talk • contribs)
Redirect Kim Nam-joo (singer), Oh Ha-young, Hong Yoo-kyung these people do not have solo activities which are independently notable of the group. Yookyung is completely dependent on Apink for her notability because she is no longer in the entertainment industry. Naeun definitely does, Bomi has had quite a few long-term mc gigs and I'm undecided on Chorong Asdklf; (talk) 23:00, 2 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Son Na-eun, Yoon Bomi and Park Cho-rong. For Naeun, I have mention the reasons above.

For Yoon Bo-mi. As other mention, Bomi has been active in a lot of TV shows. She has been MC for more than a year and recently cast for Real Men show. Beside released a song as Apink Subunit, she also released and performed another song collaboration on music show. For Park Cho-rong. She has written 4 full song, she also has acted in 3 dramas and a lead actress in one of them. So beside Naeun and Bomi, she is notable to have their own individual page based on WP:COMPOSER and WP:ENT. I'm not too sure about the other 2 members but this is their individual activities, Namjoo had done two other song collaboration beside released a song with Bomi. Hayoung was a lead actress for two music videos and also have released a song collaboration with other artist. --Sonflower0210 (talk) 21:57, 5 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Randykitty (talk) 10:23, 7 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect all no notability outside the group. --kelapstick^(bainuu) 12:18, 18 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect all - as above, not independently notable. Neutrality^talk 03:21, 19 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect all - No credible indication of notability to the point of making her suitable for a stand alone article. Bellerophon _{talk to me} 18:51, 19 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Hi @Kelapstick: @Bellerophon:@Neutrality: @Lixxx235: @سعيدس:. Can you guys please help explain to me why you think all of them don't have notability outside the group? Because it seems that all the discussion on this page are one way, so it never reach any conclusion. As i have mention above, I think Son Naeun, Yoon Bomi and Park Chorong are notable to have their own page based on WP:ENT and WP:COMPOSER. Kindly review my two separate explanation about it. Thank you so much --Sonflower0210 (talk) 19:41, 19 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Because their articles speak for themselves. Outside of the band, their contributions to entertainment do not rise beyond the level of trivia. Terms like "appearance", "cameo" and "guest co-MC" are analogous with trivia. Bellerophon _{talk to me} 22:36, 19 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@Bellerophon: Some of them started their individual acting career as a cameo but have since then moved to bigger role.

- For Son Na-eun. She has notable individual activities such as main cast in variety show for 8 months, supporting/main role (non-cameo) in Dramas and Movie. Beside that, she alone also chosen as a model for couple of brands and won award as "Star of the Year" for her variety show and nominated for "Best new actress" for her drama. So I think based on WP:ENT, she's notable enough.

- For Park Cho-rong. She has fully written 4 song, she also has acted as supporting roles in drama All My Love and lead roles in Plus Nine Boys . So I don't think it's trivia and she is notable to have their own individual page based on WP:COMPOSER and WP:ENT.

- For Yoon Bo-mi. She has been MC for more than a year (more than 70 episodes) for special corner on Weekly Idol, main cast for variety show "Human Condition" Special (3eps) and she recently cast as regular for Real Men variety show. In addition to released a single as Apink Subunit, she also released a song collaboration with other artist and performed it on music show. so based on WP:ENT, I think her individual activities are not trivial and she is notable enough to have her own page.--Sonflower0210 (talk) 12:23, 20 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

You have defeated your own argument: they have all only been cast as "supporting" or otherwise minor roles in films, TV or productions. Park's slightly more important role in Plus Nine Boys does not rise to the 'significant roles in multiple notable films or other productions' required by WP:ENT. Also, WP:COMPOSER makes it quite clear that a person who scrapes by as a composer but otherwise lacks enough notability or reliable sources to write a detailed biographical article should be merged and redirected to the parent/most relevant article. Your arguments for keeping these articles are writ large in this AfD, I do not support them because I believe your interpretation of the relevant policies is flawed. Quit filibustering please. Bellerophon _{talk to me} 18:48, 20 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

No, I never said "they have all only been cast as "supporting", I said they got some supporting and main roles. Also Supporting roles here is not minor roles or cameo but someone who's carry significant roles but not necessarily the lead actress. Isn't it the definition of Supporting actor? For example, Lupita Nyong'o got award "Best supporting actress" for "12 Years a Slave". She's not the lead actress because there are several major roles in that movie but it was a significant role.

Moreover, Son Naeun role in Childless Comfort was a lead role just like Park Chorong in Nine boys. Both were on the drama poster and also went to the press conference to promote the dramas which only be done by those who got significant roles. Both drama have no single lead role, but several main roles similar with TV Show How I Met Your Mother. On top of that, Son Naeun was also a main cast in variety show "We Got Married" for 8 months beside acted as supporting roles in "The Great Seer" drama and "Marrying the Family" movie. She win award for her variety show and nominated for her acting. She was also chosen as a model for couple of brand alone without her group member. Therefore just like Yoon Bomi, I think Son Naeun has 'significant roles in multiple notable films or other productions' required by WP:ENT. As for Park Chorong, beside her lead role in Nine boys, she also has supporting roles in "All My Loves" drama and she was appeared on 85 episodes so she also had significant multiple roles too.

I saw other group like Backstreet Boys and Nsync, Some of them also don't have a lot of individual notability outside the group, but why they can have an individual page? --Sonflower0210 (talk) 14:57, 21 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.