Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Oy (Dark Tower)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was merge to List of characters from the Dark Tower series. MBisanz ^talk 02:08, 15 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Oy (Dark Tower)[edit]

non-encyclopedic. No References. Padillah (talk) 19:37, 5 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

delete no reliable sources to establish notability.Bali ultimate (talk) 20:25, 5 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Merge Notability as part of book. ChildofMidnight (talk) 00:48, 6 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Major character appearing in multiple notable books; The Dark Tower (series) and List of characters from the Dark Tower series are both too long to be realistic merge targets. Article is a valid article in WP:SUMMARYSTYLE on an important part of an extremely important book series. JulesH (talk) 07:33, 6 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Keep There are severl secondary sources on the works talking about Oy, his name, origin etc ([1], [2], [3], [4] ) to write a well-sourced article. Abecedare (talk) 22:37, 9 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: I would caution people to not just take this person at his word that those links show books establishing notability for a Wikiepdia article about Oy separate from the Dark Tower series. One is about the entire Dark Tower series (not establishing any individual notability for Oy), one is for Stephen King in general (even less specific), one is for fantasy after Tolkien (even less specific) and one is about Tolkien's works (not even the same topic at all!). There is nothing to indicate that Oy himself deserves an article. This line of argument would mean tht ANY character listed in any of those books deserves his own article, which is clearly unworkable. DreamGuy (talk) 01:37, 10 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Fictional characters-related deletion discussions. -- Fabrictramp | talk to me 23:59, 9 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, — Aitias // discussion 00:00, 10 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Strong keep nomination is flawed. Wikipedia:Notability Guideline states: "If an article fails to cite sufficient sources to demonstrate the notability of its subject, look for sources yourself." Nominator has not shown that he looked for sources first before putting the article up for deletion. User:Abecedare showed there where sources for this article with a one minute search of google books.travb (talk) 00:40, 10 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Merge to List of characters from the Dark Tower series. The character's notability isn't seperate from that of the book series he is from. Themfromspace (talk) 01:14, 10 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Delete and redirect with anything notable not already on another article merged over. I am getting rather disappointed by number of people voting on AFDs who seem to thinking that finding any reliable source mentioning anything somehow means whatever that thing is deserves a Wikipedia article on its own. That's not at all how things work here, and I don't get where so many people came up with the idea that it was. Yes, there are several sources talking about this character, but they do so only in the context of topics that already have Wikipedia articles of their own. There's no reason this character should be considered notable separate from the book series, and the notability of the series doesn't mean the character itself is notable enough for an encyclopedia. Based upon Inclusionist's comments (and, indeed, username), I think this person just doesn't get it, and specifically tries not to understand our policies to rationalize keep votes on things that clearly do not qualify. DreamGuy (talk) 01:32, 10 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- Since when is separate notability required to split an article out from the main article in WP:SUMMARYSTYLE? The main article (List of characters from the Dark Tower series) is too long, so this article is presented independently. The notability of this character only exists because of the notability of the books the character appears in, yes. But this is true for all fictional characters. If it wasn't for the books they appeared in, we would never even have heard of them. Are you arguing that we shouldn't have any fictional character articles at all? JulesH (talk) 10:14, 10 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  - The WP:AVOIDSPLIT section of WP:SUMMARYSTYLE states that articles that are split off must meet Wikipedia's notability guidelines as being notable independant of the parent topic. Themfromspace (talk) 20:05, 10 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    - Yes, but to suggest that this must be done using sources that aren't talking about the parent topic is frankly absurd. Sources for an article can quite happily be within larger works that discuss the topic of the parent article. Notability must be shown, yes, but to require notability as a distinct concept is too extreme, and would lead to deletion of very large chunk of summary style articles. JulesH (talk) 10:22, 11 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Merge to List of characters from the Dark Tower series. He can be discussed there. While he's in a number of Dark Tower books, he's not substantively notable outside the series/world of Stephen King. And yes, I say that as a huge SK fan. StarM 04:26, 10 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Merge per above, since there really is no independent notability here. And I say this as a huge Herman Melville fan! Drmies (talk) 04:50, 10 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Notability as a major character within a major complex work by a major author is sufficient to justify an article. Appropriate use of summary style. At the extreme, one could use the concept of no separate notability to put all of SK's characters and books in one article, because thy wouldn't have been notable if he had not written them, & they have no independent existence outside the novels. DGG (talk) 22:53, 10 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Keep and cleanup — the sources seem to establish notability, even though the article could use cleanup and referencing. MuZemike 23:33, 10 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Merge to List of characters from the Dark Tower series as above, no siginificance outside the books to merit a stand-alone article. - fchd (talk) 18:45, 11 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.