Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Optimistic Voices

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was redirect to Musical selections in The Wizard of Oz. Eddie891 Talk Work 21:02, 1 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Optimistic Voices[edit]

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Optimistic Voices (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log)
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The page is unsourced. It is a legacy unsourced page pre-dating 2007, back when Wikipedia seemed perfectly happy to be an odd collection of original research, commentary related to popular culture, and other things we no longer allow to stand without actual 3rd-party sourcing. The redirect from The Rhythmettes is even more problematic, since the only group by that name I was able to find substantial sourcing on did not form until 1950, and this article makes no mention of this group. I went looking for sources for this, but most of what I found was related to other uses of this term, or a Youtube video of Natalie Cole singing this song in 2006. We lack the sourcing to demonstrate notability, and the deep analysis about this song "breaking the forth wall" seems original research unless we can find a reliable source where someone states that. One should not build articles on film songs directly by watching a film and then typing up one's reactions. John Pack Lambert (talk) 14:28, 24 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I have nominated the Rhythmettes redirect for deletion; see Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2020 November 24. ---DOOMSDAYER520 (TALK|CONTRIBS) 21:30, 24 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The third Google Books result 1 for "Rhythmettes" provides information on the 1930s group and distinguishes it from later groups. I have discussed it further at the redirect discussion page. --DiamondRemley39 (talk) 11:07, 26 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete - This is haphazard original research, notability is not demonstrated. -Indy beetle (talk) 14:46, 24 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete Non-notable song, would be a sub-listing in the Wizard of Oz article at best. Oaktree b (talk) 15:46, 24 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Albums and songs-related deletion discussions. Spiderone 15:47, 24 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete per accurate description by John Pack Lambert. The Wizard of Oz is obviously notable, but not everything is notable that is related to it. GhostDestroyer100 (talk) 18:48, 24 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete - The article is original research and offers no evidence that the song is notable outside of Wizard of Oz. If anyone is particularly concerned about alternatives to deletion, the title could conceivably be redirected to the film, but there is also no evidence that the song's use there is more important than its use anywhere else. ---DOOMSDAYER520 (TALK|CONTRIBS) 21:33, 24 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Redirect to Musical selections in The Wizard of Oz. This is arguably the least prominent original vocal song in the film, but a redirect to the article about the film's music seems appropriate per WP:NSONG. --Metropolitan90 (talk) 22:59, 24 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • That is an extremely long article with only 9 citation notes. It contains lots of statements that need better sourcing than is currently present.John Pack Lambert (talk) 13:51, 25 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Redirect per Metropolitan90, just enhancing the article with info about the three writers (that I can provide and reference). The fact that Herbert Stothart, who won an Oscar for scoring the film, wrote this song with Arlen, who also won an Oscar for the film, and with lyricist Yip Harburg, who... ditto marks, is a detail that is worth preserving--or so Harburg's biographer (p. 146-147) leads me to think. Harburg and Arlen are considered the songwriters of The Wizard of Oz, so this number being different should be recorded (and I can and will source). I wish I had a book on Arlen to check, but I don't. I'll make a case that it's worth preserving, too, because stage versions of the Wizard of Oz are based on the musical; the people putting together the shows will look for it; virtually everything of Wizard of Oz is of interest to a great many people. DiamondRemley39 (talk) 16:20, 25 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete Non-notable song, — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ericjcarrmiddletownde (talk • contribs) 16:54, 25 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Redirect to Musical selections in The Wizard of Oz: A more valid WP:ATD per Metropolitan90 and DiamondRemley39. ASTIG😎 (ICE T • ICE CUBE) 16:00, 28 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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