Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Oh Hae-won

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was redirect to Shin Suk-ja. There is no inherent notability of either daughter and from all the English sources listed (with the exclusion of the UN resolution) the notability does appear to rest with Shin Suk-ja. However, if someone can reference reliable Korean sources that indeed address either daughter as being independently notable then I have no prejudice to the articles being recreated. — Coffee // have a cup // essay // 05:41, 26 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Oh Hae-won[edit]

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Suggest redirecting to Shin Suk-ja. Hae-won is only notable for being the daughter of Shin, so there is nothing further being explained here that isn't already mentioned at Shin's article. Your Lord and Master (talk) 08:06, 11 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

~~If you think it should be redirected, why nominate the article for deletion? Be bold and redirect it. Braincricket (talk) 12:34, 11 October 2012 (UTC)~~[reply]

Sorry, I should have looked at the page history first. Braincricket (talk) 12:44, 11 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Strong Keep (and expand). Do you know any current North Korean political prisoner more famous than Oh Hae-won and Oh Kyu-won, assuming Shin Suk-ja is dead as the North Korean government claims? To my knowledge they are the only foreign children ever deported to a North Korean concentration camp and therefore the perfect example of arbitrary detention. Amnesty International campaigns, United Nations resolutions and many other documents mention all three women, Shin Sook-ja, Oh Hae-won and Oh Kyu-won by name. Shin Sook-ja certainly is mentioned first and most often, as she was the most famous of the three. But after her alleged death it can be assumed that human rights organizations will focus on the Oh sisters. Still I’m optimistic, that in case human rights organizations increase efforts, some day in future the Oh sisters will be released and their complete individual biographies can be provided in detail. The pages are quite new and I’m still in the process of expanding them. The Oh Hae-won article is already expanded partly. -- Gamnamu (talk) 14:29, 11 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Korea-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 16:13, 11 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 16:13, 11 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, KTC (talk) 00:17, 19 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Delete - but with no prejudice against recreation in the future. I might deal with the non-AFD type stuff first - the article is obviously a "work-in-progress" which is fine, but I question whether this is something that perhaps could have been better done in a user's sandbox or in a userfied space generally. There are sub-headings in the article with no content and no sources immediately available (from what I can see) to expand those sections in any meaningful sense. Beyond that, I would strongly suggest that all users view this in terms of a discussion about an article's compliance with guidelines, rather than the attempted deletion of article for a subject many people are (legitimately) passionate about.

In terms of WP:N, the article seems (to me) like it suffers from a combination of WP:BLP1E and a lack of sources to verify that the subject is individually notable. I would argue that the event itself is notable (if we could agree on a generally NPOV title and general scope - suggestion; Political imprisonment of the Oh family) given it has been covered in multiple sources including those above. I would also argue that if such an article existed, it could have this article (and that of the subject's sister) merged into it. I'm just not sure that articles related to the specific individuals involved are justified by the sources available. I disagree with the assertion that the daughter gains more notability (to the extent that an article is justified on this basis) as a result of the mother's death. It has been generally established (as far as I can tell) that children do not inherit notability from their notable parents. I can only imagine that sentiment would extend to any assertion that notability might being inherited from a parent's (even notable) death. Assuming what international groups might or might not subsequently focus on is a bit WP:CRYSTAL. I'm also not particularly partial to the argument that they are the "most famous political prisoners in North Korea" and are thus notable (by what measure, anyway). On balance, I can't see any good reasons (based on policy) for the article(s) to be kept but I would be happy to see the creation of an event-based article into which they can be merged, or the recreation of both if/when more sources become available. Stalwart111 (talk) 02:04, 19 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Delete - And redirect. Oh may later attain independent notability, but I'm unpersuaded that she does yet. I'm very familiar with the Shin article, having done a major rewrite of it this year. There's very little detail here beyond what's in the Shin article already, and the additional information is mostly sourced to groups like "Free the NK Gulag (NGO)", which I'm not sure meet the test for reliable sources. -- Khazar2 (talk) 17:42, 19 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.