Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Neverwinter

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was redirect to Neverwinter Campaign Setting. Or put a dab in. Whatever seems best Spartaz ^Humbug! 09:00, 14 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Neverwinter[edit]

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Largely WP:INUNIVERSE or sourced from primary sources, fails WP:GNG. This is Wikia material that lacks the secondary notability for a standalone article. Note that this is about the city and not the actually notable game series, Neverwinter Nights. _{ZXCVBNM (TALK)} 15:42, 26 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Fictional elements-related deletion discussions. _{ZXCVBNM (TALK)} 15:42, 26 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Science fiction and fantasy-related deletion discussions. _{ZXCVBNM (TALK)} 15:42, 26 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. Given how much has been set here I think notability is easily satisfied. -- Necrothesp (talk) 16:09, 26 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

WP:SOURCESMUSTEXIST unless some are actually demonstrated._{ZXCVBNM (TALK)} 16:48, 26 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Games-related deletion discussions. Necrothesp (talk) 16:09, 26 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. I've started to find and add in sources. I'll continue to do so over the next few days; today is a holiday so I don't have a lot of time right now. Neverwinter is the fictional hub of a bunch of media (videos games, tabletop, novels, etc) and the publication history section can show the transmedia connections between these products. Sariel Xilo (talk) 17:17, 26 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Merge & Disambiguate - At the very least, I think a Disambiguation page needs to be made, as there are at least three distinct articles on things simply called "Neverwinter" - the city that this AFD is about, the MMORPG, and the novel. My feelings are that the content on the fictional city itself should be Merged, likely to Faerûn, as there is very little in reliable, secondary sources that discusses the city itself outside of plot. The issue is that, due to the various, clearly notable games that were named for the city and featured it as a location, it appears as though there are more viable sources than there actually are. However, in the end, the actual reliable, secondary sources, including the ones being used in this article, are actually discussing the notable games (the various incarnations of Neverwinter Nights, or the MMO), and not the fictional location itself in depth. I expect any decision made at this AFD to be somewhat contentious, though, due to these issues. Rorshacma (talk) 17:28, 26 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Keep per comments above and per WP:ATD and WP:PRESERVE, although I feel that Neverwinter (disambiguation) would be wortwhile. BOZ (talk) 19:08, 26 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- I went ahead and made the aforementioned disambiguation page, since that seemed to make sense. BOZ (talk) 04:40, 27 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Keep & Disambiguate for all the reasons listed above. I think the disambiguation is itself and excellent idea. Timmccloud (talk) 21:49, 26 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Keep and Disambiguate per Timmccloud. Significant coverage exists. Individual sources which do not provide substantial coverage by themselves could be combined in prose to paint a broader picture, and sourcing in the article provides that. Comments and reception about the location of Neverwinter itself exist and could be extracted from numerous game reviews for both NWN1 and NWN2, which have been collated in the respective articles for both subject topics. The only real issue I can see with the article is that the overtly in-universe tone should be adjusted, and of course there's room for improvement in the reception section. Haleth (talk) 00:55, 27 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect and/or disambiguate to Neverwinter Campaign Setting, Neverwinter (novel), or Neverwinter (video game). This is purely primary or unsourced information that does not meet the WP:GNG separate from the articles covering the fiction itself. Jontesta (talk) 01:59, 27 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment: I would say the city of Neverwinter as a fictional location and setting is the broader topic, whereas the article Neverwinter Campaign Setting which I presume you consider to be a topic which warrants a standalone article only refers to the 4E supplemental book. If consensus is inclined to merge, contents from both articles could be merged into a new article to demonstrate the notability of Neverwinter as a notable setting for multiple fictional works. Haleth (talk) 08:31, 30 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect or disambuate. This is a well know location due to popularity of setting, but the article is pure fancruft right now, the only section that has some promise is history/origins but it sourced to low quality site [1] (that does not seem independent). There is next to nothing worth merging here (WP:ALLPLOT), so for now I am leaning to redirect or disambiguate, but do ping me if better sources are found. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 02:18, 27 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect or rewrite as disambiguation: there really is nothing here that passes the standard at WP:NOT and nothing to merge. The games that use this setting already say it all, and a short disambiguation page would work. Shooterwalker (talk) 17:26, 27 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Keep or disambiguate - In universe or mostly primarily sourced is not relevant to deletion, per WP:NEXIST, WP:ATD, and WP:ARTN. Others above have begun to better cite the article, which is the legitimate solution to those concerns. As someone unfamiliar with the topic, I find the arguments in favour of deletion to be thoroughly unconvincing, treading the edges of WP:RUBBISH and WP:WEDONTNEEDIT (which confuse snobbery for policy). I'm willing to change my mind if someone presents a better argument for it not passing WP:GNG. Dark knight 2149 00:56, 28 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect - The core fictional topic seems to lack anything that can be called significant coverage. The above idea about cherry picking minor quotes from reviews is not how to build an article. We need significant commentary to be the focal point of the article. The rearranging idea is definitely good regardless of how this goes. TTN (talk) 16:10, 28 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Merge or redirect - Disambiguation is an ok idea too but the real issue is there are three different series called Neverwinter Nights which probably needs its own disambiguation. The sources here are off topic but would add some publication history to the Faerun article that doesn't have yet. Archrogue (talk) 00:35, 30 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect - as Rorshacma points out, the decent sourcing in this piece is about the notable games, not the fictional city, which this article is about. The fictional city does not have enough in-depth sourcing from reliable, independent sources to show notability. Onel5969 ^{TT me} 20:38, 1 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Keep per Haleth. I would like to help out Sariel Xilo in searching and adding those separated sources, but with so many articles being nominated for deletion in a short period, that would require more time. Daranios (talk) 11:49, 2 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Basic googling/google scholar show that WP:NEXIST. A little bit of before goes a long way. AugusteBlanqui (talk) 08:08, 4 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Which sources are you finding by Googling that actually discuss the city itself in depth? As already discussed in length before, simply googling gives plenty of results on the notable games that share a title, such as Neverwinter Nights, which already have articles. Not on the actual fictional city itself. Rorshacma (talk) 15:41, 4 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Missvain (talk) 01:52, 5 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect to Neverwinter Campaign Setting, all found sourcing is about the game, not the fictional setting. As a result, it fails GNG. Devonian Wombat (talk) 04:10, 12 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Not notable/disambiguate I'm not finding any non-in-universe coverage of this topic, but a dab page would be helpful for other topics called "Neverwinter". (t · c) buidhe 06:59, 12 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.