Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Mustafa Ait Idir

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Eddie891 ^Talk _Work 23:51, 1 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Mustafa Ait Idir[edit]

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This is one of the legacy pages coming from a time when we did not really enforce the need for Wikipedia to be built on secondary sources. It is also POV pushing in its very existence. It is not built on secondary sources, and any secondary sources there are make only very passing mentions to Ait Idir, it is built almost entirely on primary sources, which is a clear violation of Wikipedia, and is clearly not built on indepdent, reliable, 3rd-party secondary sources John Pack Lambert (talk) 20:51, 25 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Speedy keep and warn the nominator that competence and honesty are required. This nomination is utter nonsense. It is utterly false to say that the article "is not built on secondary sources". The article includes no fewer than seven news articles as sources, including pieces from the Boston Globe, the Associated Press, the New York Times, and two from the Washington Post. These sources substantiate virtually every salient claim in the article. The nominator's statement that "any secondary sources there are make only very passing mentions to Ait Idir" is utterly false. The Boston Globe piece describes Idir as the central figure in the case it discusses. The first WaPo article discusses Idir's testimony in some detail. The second WaPo article is almost entirely devoted to Idir. An honest, competent editor would not have made the statements in this nomination. The Big Bad Wolfowitz (aka Hullaballoo). Treated like dirt by many administrators since 2006. Fight for freedom, stand with Hong Kong! (talk) 00:33, 26 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator Johnpacklambert, I am concerned over whether you understand your obligations under WP:BEFORE. Aren't you supposed to do your best to conduct your own meaningful web search, so you confirm or refute for yourself whether the underlying topic meets our inclusion criteria? If you made an effort to comply with your obigation, I'd be happy to help you improve your web search skills.

I am working on an essay, User:Geo Swan/opinions/When complying with BEFORE is not straighforward. Mustafa Ait Idir is an example of a topic where complying with BEFORE is not straighforward, as his name has been transliterated multiple ways from Arabic to English. Different transliterations include:

Mustafa Ait Idir
Mustafa Ait Idr
Mustapha Ait Idir
Mustapha Ait Idr
Mustafa Idir
Mustafa Idr
Mustapha Idir
Mustapha Idr

If you did a web search, but your search didn't include all the transliterations, your web search fell short. Geo Swan (talk) 01:03, 26 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

"Die sieben scheußlichen Jahre: Keine Unterstützung nach Entlassung aus dem US-Lager" [The seven hideous years: No support after release from the US camp]. Der Standard (in German). 2010-04-21. Retrieved 2020-08-25. Mustafa Ait Idir will seinen Kopf nicht in die Vergangenheit stecken, wie er sagt. Er würde gern nur an die Zukunft denken. Wenn da nicht die Gegenwart wäre. Der ehemalige Guantánamo-Häftling, der in Bosnien lebt, wird dauernd von den "Konsequenzen der Vergangenheit" eingeholt. Mit dem Stigma des "Terror-Häftlings" belegt, kann er keinen Job finden, mit dem er seine Familie erhalten kann. Er unterrichtet ein wenig Karate und produziert Visitenkarten: Für 100 Stück bekommt er 25 bosnische Mark, also 12 Euro.
"Bosnian Detainees Return Home After Seven Years In Guantanamo". Radio Free Europe. 2008-12-17. Retrieved 2020-08-25. Last month, a U.S. judge in Washington ordered the release without delay of Boudella al-Hajj, Mustafa Ait Idr, and Mohammed Nechle, saying the U.S. government's case was not strong enough to continue holding them. The judge noted in his ruling that the suspicion of their involvement in terrorism activities was based on only one source, the credibility of which was unverifiable.
Sabrina Toppa (2017-05-06). "I Want Americans to Know That Guantánamo Happened Not to Monsters, but to Men". Mother Jones magazine. Retrieved 2020-08-25. Lakhdar Boumediene and Mustafa Ait Idir were part of the "Algerian Six," a group of men rounded up in Bosnia on the unproven claim they had plotted to bomb the American Embassy in Sarajevo. The two were beaten, shackled, blindfolded, and transferred in January 2002 to the Guantánamo Bay Naval Base—where they languished for seven years without charges under torturous conditions.
Marc Perelman (2007-12-04). "From Sarajevo to Guantanamo: The Strange Case of the Algerian Six". Mother Jones magazine. Retrieved 2020-08-25. In an April 2005 suit seeking records about the detainees' treatment, they contend that one of the detainees, Mustafa Ait Idir, was severely beaten on two occasions and that his face was once held under water in the toilet of his cell.
"WITNESSES OF THE UNSEEN: SEVEN YEARS IN GUANTÁNAMO". Kirkus Reviews. 2017-04-05. Retrieved 2020-08-25. Other than an introduction and some additional material about the authors' cases, the book is entirely made up of the words of Boumediene and Idir, translated in interviews with Norland and List.
Christine Lagorio (2005-01-31). "Orwellian Guantanamo". CBS News. Retrieved 2020-08-25. To understand why the United States Supreme Court — and now a growing number of lower federal courts — is becoming increasingly skeptical of unfettered executive-branch power in the war on terror, all you need to do is read the colloquy between accused terror-detainee Mustafa Ait Idr and the court officer in charge of his case.
"Blacked Out Bay". Vice News. Retrieved 2020-08-25.
Lucile Malandain. "Gefangenenlager Guantánamo: "Ein Ort schlimmer als die Hölle"" [Guantánamo prison camp: "A place worse than hell"]. AFP (in French). Retrieved 2020-08-25. Er hat die Schließung des Lagers auf Kuba angeordnet, das der ehemalige Häftling Mustapha Ait Idir als einen Ort schlimmer als die Hölle beschreibt.
"Verantwortung übernehmen: Wie man den Fall auch wendet, er bleibt ein Dilemma" [To take responsibility: Whichever way you turn the case, it remains a dilemma] (in German). 2010-04-21. Und das Mindeste ist, dass die USA jene angemessen entschädigen, die wie Mustafa Ait Idir (siehe Schwerpunktseite) heute in Europa leben und nicht wissen, wie sie ihre Familien ernähren sollen.

Keep - disclaimer, I started this article. As above, nomination does not comply with BEFORE, and subject clearly measures up to GNG. Geo Swan (talk) 01:09, 26 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Keep I don’t see any merit in this nomination. The article is well-sourced. Mccapra (talk) 04:49, 26 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - While over-reliance on primary sources is a problem in an article, only the failure to have more than one GNG-qualifying reliable source would give ground for deletion. Even besides the BEFORE issue with the nom, this is a clear keep. — Charles Stewart (talk) 09:43, 26 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Bosnia and Herzegovina-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple (talk) 12:26, 27 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of United States of America-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple (talk) 12:26, 27 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Terrorism-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple (talk) 12:26, 27 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.