Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Montenotte, Ireland

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

Re-keep; non-admin closure per WP:SNOW; three more straight keep votes. Also, the person who pressured User:SeanMD80 to relist it had questionable reasoning. Nousernamesleft^{copper, not wood} 03:35, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

Montenotte, Ireland

Montenotte, Ireland (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log)

Unsourced, no indication of importance/significance, prod reverted. According to Talk:Montenotte, Ireland it's a large neighborhood but that's not sourced, google show hotels, houses for sale, nursing home but no notability, books.google show it listed as an address several times. -- Jeandré, 2008-01-19t05:04z

• Keep per WP:OUTCOMES see "places". This article only created yesterday. Give it time to develop. Sting au Buzz Me... 05:40, 19 January 2008 (UTC)
  • There are no sources indicating that it's a "Larger neighborhood", in fact there are no sources at all. wp:v requires sources, and the burden of proof is on people adding info. Wikipedia is trying to build an encyclopedia, with articles about topics that are notable enough for an encyclopedia; not a messageboard, another usenet, or an indiscriminate collection of information. -- Jeandré, 2008-01-19t05:59z
• Keep Towns/Villages/Cities/etc are considered automatically notable. VivioFateFan ^{(Talk, Sandbox)} 05:47, 19 January 2008 (UTC)
  • It's a "suburb" according to the article, tho there are no sources for even that. -- Jeandré, 2008-01-19t05:59z
• Keep - WP:OUTCOMES. matt91486 (talk) 06:27, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

• I would like to point out that OUTCOME is an unsourced essay, and thus has no actual say over whether an article is kept or deleted. Please cite actual guidelines and policies (which DO have say) when commenting. TJ Spyke 06:57, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

• And I would like to point out that WP:OUTCOMES is as valid as any other argument. AFD is about WP:CONSENSUS. If it were just about rules we wouldn't need a discussion. --Dhartung | Talk 07:10, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

OUTCOMES is still just an opinion piece. That means actual guidelines and policies always over ride OUTCOMES (this mainly applies to school related AFDs, where some people think they should be kept even if they fail WP:V and WP:N). TJ Spyke 00:38, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

• Places have time and time again been shown to be notable after consensus. I'm not sure tagging the outcomes essay with an unreferenced tag was appropriate either, being that it's not an encyclopedic article and therefore doesn't really require citations. matt91486 (talk) 07:21, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

• Delete No sources to verify the place exists, so it fails WP:V (which is a POLICY, not an essay like "WP:OUTCOMES"). TJ Spyke 06:57, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

• Keep. If it's an address it's a postcode thus notable. There are scattered references to the district dating back to the 19th century and it seems right now to be one of the nicer parts of Cork. This is certainly verifiable in any meaningful sense of the word, no matter what our article contains at the present moment. --Dhartung | Talk 07:10, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

• Comment, there are no postcodes in Ireland outside of Dublin the the occupied six counties.--Vintagekits (talk) 17:37, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

• Where's this "occupied six counties" you talk of?? :p (BTW, check out UK postcodes#Northern Ireland - Alison ^❤ 18:08, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

• this local chap can tell you all about it!--Vintagekits (talk) 00:22, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

• Question. Does it have its own gov't or is it under the jurisdiction of the city's public officials? If no then Delete Parts of towns are not notable by themselves and should at least be mentioned on that town's article per WP:LOCAL. If yes then Weak Keep until sources are presented that verifies that information.--Lenticel ^(talk) 07:37, 19 January 2008 (UTC)
• Keep - Unfortunatly Towns/Villages/Cities/etc are considered automatically notable and need to be proven Not Notable or Non-Existant to be deleted. Take a browse through all the non-notable Hungarian towns WP has listed if you dont believe me. Exit2DOS2000^•T•C• 13:50, 19 January 2008 (UTC)
• Note: This debate has been included in the list of Ireland-related deletion discussions. —FlowerpotmaN·(t) 00:43, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
• Comment: I'm not going to even pretend that this counts as a valid source, but GoogleMaps seemed to know where it was, so it's a real place. Sources exist somewhere for the article, it's just a matter of having the tenacity to track them down. Not all sources are available online, remember. matt91486 (talk) 00:48, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
• Keep. It's a real place, with real references (now). Mostlyharmless (talk) 01:38, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

---

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so that consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. SeanMD80^{talk | contribs} 13:33, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

• Keep. Cite and ref issues aside, is automatically notable as per other suburbs/towns/etc. Guliolopez (talk) 16:01, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
• Keep - one of the more notable Cork suburbs in itself. Notable anyway per Guliolopez - Alison ^❤ 16:05, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
  • Can someone please explain this to me like I'm a 6 year old? [1] is vague but seem to call it a suburb. No referenced reliable third party sources about Montenotte indicate that it's notable. WP:OUTCOMES#Places says "Smaller suburbs should generally be listed under the primary city article, except when they consist of legally separate municipalities or communes (e.g., having their own governments)". No sources are listed showing it has its own government. The number of residents is tiny, so it's not a large neighborhood which is also mentioned in OUTCOMES. What am I missing here? I can see how it's a fine topic for a messageboard, but how is this a notable and encyclopedic topic? -- Jeandré, 2008-01-22t21:57z

I must remind you as the one who closed this AfD early (?) that if AfDs were just substitutes for applying "policy" then we would have no reason for them. AfDs are about determining which action the community feels is right and appropriate. If the consensus is to ignore "policy," then it can do that. Policies on Wikipedia are not laws, but reflections of the community's previous general consensus. Policies change when consensus changes. Wikipedia is governed by the people that participate in it, not by the people that read it, and has no formal responsibility to those people as such. SeanMD80^{talk | contribs} 01:06, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

• Keep per Guliolopez (and others) although moving to Montenotte, Cork would probably be more in keeping with naming conventions. Montenotte is well-known in it's own right; the article needs references and expansion but it's more a case of finding and adding the print references. FlowerpotmaN·(t) 22:59, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.