Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Mohamed Fouzai

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete‎. Owen× ☎ 07:41, 13 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Mohamed Fouzai[edit]

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stub about an unnotable sportsperson. apparently didn't even finish in the men's Marathon - T46 event. ltb d l (talk) 06:00, 12 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople and Tunisia. ltb d l (talk) 06:00, 12 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep, thank you for nominating the article because it gives us a chance to look into it. apparently didn't even finish in the men's marathon – I don't think this is a fair assessment of the athlete's accomplishments, because he won a silver medal in the T46 men's 5000 m at the same Games, and was 4th in the T46 800 m. When assessing a subject's accomplishments, we should always take their best achievements rather than their worst, as the subject clearly seems to be more of a middle distance specialist. Most importantly to P&G concerns, there is a book about the subject here: Paralympic Competitors for Tunisia: Paralympic Athletes of Tunisia, Farhat Chida, Abbes Saidi, Abderrahim Zhiou, Ali Ghribi, Mohamed Fouzai. ISBN 978-1-158-10041-5.. I tried to investigate if it was an AI / fill-in-the-blanks book by searching for other book titles of the same format, and I was not able to find any, so I think it is a legitimate book even though it says "Currently unavailable". Based on WP:NEXISTS, I am voting to keep. --Habst (talk) 13:40, 12 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Please reconsider, retract and strike as you see fit. The Paralympic Competitors for Tunisia book is a reprint of Wikipedia articles. It is a print-on-demand based on Wikipedia's category of the same name. I can guarantee you this. During my years on this site I have seen a lot of these floating around. They are easily identifiable by their cover (and topic). Other giveaways are the lack of author and the length of a measly 22 pages. Searching for other book titles of the same format? I get results such as:

Paralympic Swimmers of Israel

Paralympic Competitors for Singapore: Paralympic Bronze Medalists for Singapore, Paralympic Equestrians of Singapore

Paralympic Competitors for the United States

Articles on Spain at the Paralympics, Including

Paralympic Competitors for Mexico : Olympic Wheelchair Racers of Mexico, Paralympic Athletes of Mexico

Articles on Paralympic Competitors for China, Including

Paralympic Competitors for Switzerland : Olympic Wheelchair Racers of Switzerland, Paralympic Athletes of Switzerland

Geschichte (talk) 18:37, 12 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@User:Geschichte, thank you both for letting me know about Books LLC, I have struck the part of my comment about that. Then, we have to look for other coverage of the athlete.

I see two sentences of coverage beyond just listing race results here (it mentions when Fouzai surged in the race, not possible to glean this info from just online databases so it indicates some level of on-the-ground reporting or analysis was done): "Athletics Morning Session Review -- Repeat performances -- china.org.cn". www.china.org.cn. Retrieved 2024-02-12.. I wonder if there is a telecast of the race where an announcer may have prepared remarks about Fouzai, that seems like a good direction to go in from here. --Habst (talk) 19:01, 12 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Was typing this up as Geschichte replied): @Habst: Unfortunately that book is published by Books LLC per its Google result, which means that it is a reprint from Wikipedia. BeanieFan11 (talk) 18:41, 12 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Obviously, the What Links Here featured is the quickest way to check an athlete's accomplishments. Here, we can ascertain that he competed at the 2012 Paralympics as well, so no clear WP:ATD. Woefully short on WP:SIGCOV though. Geschichte (talk) 18:37, 12 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Geschichte, I agree that is a helpful strategy, though on WP:ATD, I think there is a clear redirect target in Athletics at the 2008 Summer Paralympics – Men's 5000 metres T46 because it is the only race in which the athlete won a medal, and it appears to be the race in which coverage mentions him the most, so it is thus his most significant race. --Habst (talk) 19:04, 12 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The china.org.cn source will be classified as WP:ROUTINE and nowhere near in-depth. It's two sentences... I'm sorry to to break it, but am just the messenger... Geschichte (talk) 21:38, 12 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Do we know his Arabic (I think that's what's spoken in Tunisia?) name? BeanieFan11 (talk) 19:06, 12 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@BeanieFan11: It is "محمد فوزي" Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 20:30, 17 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Sport of athletics-related deletion discussions. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 19:44, 17 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Based on that name, this looks to be an article primary about Fouzai as a leader of the Ministry of Youth And Sports, as a major decision-maker on Paralympic policy and naturalization of athletes: "مصر أولي بأبنائها.. وزارة الرياضة : نرفض تجنيس أبطالنا ونبحث عنهم فى كل مكان بالعالم". almasryalyoum.com (in Arabic). 28 August 2021. This article also extensively quotes Fouzai: "الشباب والرياضة: تقديم كل الدعم لمنتخب كرة القدم لقصار القامة في كأس العالم". www.albawabhnews.com. 2022-02-02. Retrieved 2024-02-18. Based on this new information, I am voting to keep as I think it is clear that sources exist, and these new positions should be added to the article. --Habst (talk) 21:10, 18 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

He was not the leader of the Ministry of Youth and Sports in Egypt (or Tunisia), he (or someone with his name) was a spokesman for it. The actual minister is Ashraf Sobhy, who is clearly the person in the image of the "Minister of Youth and Sports" from the first article. It's not clear to me why a Tunisian would be serving as a ministry spokesperson in the government of Egypt, so I suspect this is a different person. JoelleJay (talk) 01:37, 20 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Different person, as both arms are intact in the image of the spokesman in this article. JoelleJay (talk) 01:47, 20 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: to allow for the potential of more sourcing since his name in local script was identified fairly late in the window
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Star Mississippi 22:17, 19 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. I have not seen any SIGCOV in IRS of this person under either his English or Arabic name. Being quoted in a news article has zero impact on notability, otherwise every single spokesperson for an org whose activities are reported in the media would be notable.

JoelleJay (talk) 01:13, 20 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

User:JoelleJay, thanks for doing this research. Are you sure the caption about Fouzai being the depicted person is accurate, or if it just depicts another person at the conference in error? Because I noticed that same photo is used in an article about Ashraf Sobhi here, where Fouzai is only mentioned briefly at the bottom: [1]

I am careful with my wording to say that the subject is a leader, not the leader. Tunisia and Egypt are geographically close, so I think it is plausible that the subject would work for a sports federation as is common for professional sportspeople after their careers end. Also, what so you think about the WP:ATD of redirecting to his silver-medal-winning race article? Thanks, --Habst (talk) 02:49, 20 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

You can search the pictures of spokesperson Fouzai yourself. The search term is his name plus "spokesperson".

No it is not "plausible" that Egypt would hire, as a spokesman of the federal government, a citizen of a country 2000 km away. Minister Sobhi was spokesman Fouzai's doctoral supervisor, that's why he was hired. Don't you think that link, in which Fouzai explains his background on the subject and describes what his thesis says about Olympic tournaments, would maybe mention that he had competed in the Paralympics? JoelleJay (talk) 04:59, 20 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

i don't think you meant to search for "Ù…ØÙ…Ø¯ Ù ÙˆØ²ÙŠ" "Ø§Ù„Ù…ØªØØ¯Ø« Ø¨Ø§Ø%. ltb d l (talk) 08:06, 20 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

What a bizarre error...not sure how that got turned into gibberish (or how that gibberish still seemed to generate results?!), but if this still doesn't work then you can just search "المتحدث باسم" "محمد فوزي" in images. JoelleJay (talk) 22:44, 20 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, The Herald (Benison) (talk) 05:44, 27 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Final relist.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, The Herald (Benison) (talk) 16:58, 5 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Being quoted or interviewed doesn't help notability here and the discussion above doesn't sway me towards notability. Oaktree b (talk) 02:56, 6 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete: No coverage for this person found. Even in French sources, it only hits on soccer players. What's given now for sourcing are database listings. Non-notable athlete. Oaktree b (talk) 02:55, 6 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.