Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Mizzi Kaspar
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- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was keep. Secret account 01:53, 4 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Mizzi Kaspar[edit]
- Mizzi Kaspar (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log · Stats)
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This article is not notable to be added on Wikipedia. WikiLion1 (talk) 13:23, 25 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. Northamerica1000(talk) 13:27, 25 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Austria-related deletion discussions. Northamerica1000(talk) 13:27, 25 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- Merge/redirect to Rudolf, Crown Prince of Austria, as any notability is effectively inherited from him. AllyD (talk) 16:37, 25 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- Keep Mistresses of royalty have their own aknowledged place in history, and normally have their own articles in Wikipedia - just look at the category. What this article need is expansion and improvement, as many other articles do, and the articles on German and Hungarian language wikipedia can be of help in that regard - the article are well developed in those wikipedia versions, and can be developed in the same fashion here.--Aciram (talk) 20:03, 25 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- Delete - Non-notable, known only for being a mistress of a crown prince. Maybe a mention on Rudolf, Crown Prince of Austria, but even that is doubtful unless there's some serious support for the claims of her being a whore, etc. Caffeyw (talk) 23:52, 25 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- Keep because the subject passes WP:GNG without too much trouble whatsoever. She was a key part of the The Mayerling Incident as the person the Crown Prince originally intended to enter into a suicide pact with. The baroness (with whom he did eventually commit suicide) was his "second choice". The whole thing has been the subject of a number of books, plays, ballets and movies, most named after the hunting lodge, Mayerling, where they died (see Mayerling (disambiguation)). Beyond popular culture dramatisations, the incident (and her part, in addition to her relationship with the Crown Prince) has been covered in detail in a number of books including Rudolph, the tragedy of Mayerling by Károly Lónyay (1949) and Mistresses: Domestic Scandals of Nineteenth Century Monarchs by Betty Kelen (1966). R. H. Bruce Lockhart called her, "the real love of his life" in Your England (1955). There's more than enough there, I think. Stalwart111 00:10, 26 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- I've now expanded the article with some of the above. Stalwart111 01:50, 26 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- First off if she was a key part of the Mayerling incident why isn't she talked about anywhere in it? The only mention in one of the books is Rudolf calling Mizzi the love of his life. Nothing else, and nothing to support the claim she was part of the Mayerling Incident, or to give notability to her in her own right. It appears to be fringe at best for the belief that she was asked to take part in the suicide of Rudolf, and not supported by reliable sources. Even if it where 100% supported, it would not mean she is notable herself, rather that she was part of a notable occurrence. Caffeyw (talk) 05:59, 26 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- There are myriad reasons why she might not be mentioned in particular articles. We don't rely on what has or hasn't been mentioned in other articles because those articles aren't a reliable source for anything anyway. The fact that she isn't mentioned may simply mean that none of Wikipedia's current crop of editors has managed to get around to including it yet. That said, she is mentioned at Baroness Mary Vetsera and the citation there seems fairly reliable on the face of it. Beyond that, as Aciram points out above, mistresses have their own place and where they meet WP:GNG (which I would argue this subject does) there's no real justification for deleting an article. Stalwart111 06:56, 26 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- First off if she was a key part of the Mayerling incident why isn't she talked about anywhere in it? The only mention in one of the books is Rudolf calling Mizzi the love of his life. Nothing else, and nothing to support the claim she was part of the Mayerling Incident, or to give notability to her in her own right. It appears to be fringe at best for the belief that she was asked to take part in the suicide of Rudolf, and not supported by reliable sources. Even if it where 100% supported, it would not mean she is notable herself, rather that she was part of a notable occurrence. Caffeyw (talk) 05:59, 26 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- Keep per Stalwart. I note also that the nominator is currently blocked as a Ron Gates sock. Peridon (talk) 11:41, 26 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.