Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Miles Fisher

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Complete rewrite has established notability as noted by those who have commented since the rewrite. Davewild (talk) 18:36, 7 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Miles Fisher[edit]

Miles Fisher (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View log)

Minor actor, with no significant theatrical, film, or television roles noted in the article, nor can any be found in his listing on IMDB. CalendarWatcher (talk) 05:57, 2 September 2008 (UTC) (Ambiguity removed)[reply]

Exactly. What I mean is, even IMDB does not have him meeting WP:BIO. Cheers, Dlohcierekim 06:28, 2 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I am well-aware that he has an IMBD listing, and did not state otherwise: I stated that 'no significant theatrical, film, or television roles' can be found on IMDB. But in the interest of avoiding further confusion, I have altered my remarks. --CalendarWatcher (talk) 08:49, 2 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Question of Nobility - Miles Fisher's Wikipedia page has been online for many months and it was never an issue until just a few days ago. Still, many people continue to look at his page proving that its information has implicit value. Moreover, millions of people have seen his performances, particularly in Superhero Movie (it was covered so significantly that a lengthy article was written on his performance in specific in wikinews article by other members of the wiki commuity - http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Tom_Cruise_spoofed_in_film_%27Superhero_Movie%27). I do not think this article should be deleted on the grounds of a lack of "nobility" of the subject.

Question of Copy Violation - The claim that the text here is nearly identical to that found on Miles Fisher's IMDB page is undisputed. Nonetheless, it is written by the same person. Both authors, on Wiki and on IMDB are "Erwin Fletcher". It can therefor not be plagiarized, as it was written by the same person. Furthermore, the Wiki article has been updated and improved upon since, with many added new external links, and significant restructuring of each paragraph with additional information listed. I do not think this article should be deleted on the grounds of a Copy Violation.

Finally, to quote from the Wikipedia guidelines:

"A topic is deemed encyclopedic if it is "notable"[38] in the Wikipedia jargon; i.e., if it has received significant coverage in secondary reliable sources (i.e., mainstream media or major academic journals) that are independent of the subject of the topic. Second, Wikipedia must expose knowledge that is already established and recognized.[39] In other words, it must not present, for instance, new information or original works."

Google has a myriad of hits on the subject at question. Articles have been written about him in Variety, New York Post, Dallas Morning News, Harvard Crimson. He has been featured on various Television programing. This article is exposing knowledge on him that is already established but giving the subject's biography greater breadth and clarity.

Unless there are other claims against the worth of this article, I advocate a removal of the warning banner at the top. Many thanks. --Erwinfletcher (talk) 05:16, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

'The claim that the text here is nearly identical to that found on Miles Fisher's IMDB page is undisputed. ' - Unsurprising, as no one, to my knowledge, has made that claim other than yourself. However, if it's true--I haven't checked for myself--then the material in question MUST be deleted as a copyright violation, since IMDB holds the copyright.
The rest of your commentary, unfortunately, does not address the problems with the article and its subject, namely that he's not actually notable nor has he done anything really of note, whatever passing mentions he's generated in trade and alumni publications. --CalendarWatcher (talk) 07:43, 4 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep. Satisfies WP:NOTE: has received significant coverage in reliable secondary sources that are independent of the subject, as can be seen from a brief perusal here. Here are some notable mentions in Daily Variety, Toronto Star and San Francisco Chronicle, however it should be noted that the actor was receiving positive acclaim as far back as 2001, years prior to his appearance in Superhero Movie: - Peppard, Alan (December 3, 2001). "Fate of Texas in their ears". The Dallas Morning News. p. 27A. I will try to work on this article to improve it and add additional sources. (Note: I wrote that Wikinews article mentioned above.) Cirt (talk) 10:57, 7 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • No, he does not satisfy WP:NOTE, as brief passing mentions in a few newspaper stories do not constitute'significant coverage', nor am I seeing any evidence of the most of the media name-dropping you listed above. What notable mention in the Toronto Star? What notable mention in theSan Francisco Chronicle? What notable mention in Daily Variety?--the last is only a brief casting notice, probably a press release sent out by his agent. --CalendarWatcher (talk) 12:44, 7 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Please note that the Daily Variety article you refer to that is currently linked in the article is simply a bio brief, the article I mentioned is a different Daily Variety article that gives significant discussion of the individual, as do multiple other WP:RS/WP:V secondary sources, and this amply satisfies WP:NOTE. I will demonstrate this if given a chance to do so, I just have not been able to yet. Cirt (talk) 13:44, 7 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: I have emailed Erwinfletcher (talk · contribs) in an attempt to resolve the possible issue related to text from Miles Fisher's bio page on IMDB, which says it is written by "Erwin Fletcher". If the user agrees to release the work under the GFDL, then that is no longer an issue. In any event, I will work to remove all that info anyways and source everything in the article to additional WP:RS/WP:V secondary sources (though I noticed some were already included as external links, and I have begun to format those and add more). Cirt (talk) 11:30, 7 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I don't see how. We can always paraphrase a source. The IMDB page not showing the subject meets WP:N is an example of how not-notable the subject is. IMDB content cannot be regarded as reliible enough to establish notability. The fact remains, he has no notable roles, has done nothing rising to the level required by WP:BIO, and lacks significant coverage by third party sources, Cheers Dlohcierekim 13:12, 7 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
We won't really even need the IMDB source at all in the article, I have found sufficient other secondary sources that satisfy WP:RS/WP:V to improve upon it. I just have not had a chance to do so yet. Cirt (talk) 13:42, 7 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Dlohcierekim (talk · contribs) - I agree with you that IMDB is not the best WP:RS source, that is why we can't really trust IMDB in and of itself as to whether someone is notable or not - we should not rely upon it to judge this but should instead look to see if the individual has been discussed significantly in independent sources, as per WP:NOTE. That is why I will improve upon the article with other secondary sources that satisfy WP:RS and WP:V. Cirt (talk) 13:51, 7 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment - I have done a good deal of work on this article. I removed all of the material that was the exact same text as at IMDB. I added a whole bunch of material from lots of WP:RS/WP:V secondary sources that significantly discuss the individual. The subject of the article is the son of the President of the Federal Reserve Bank of Dallas Richard W. Fisher and grandson of former Congressman James M. Collins. He beat out 10,000 entries at the 2001 International Teen Movie Festival (ITMF) to win "Best Actor" for his own film Head Shot. Newsday focused an article on his career in 2001 - the article is titled: "Miles Fisher, 'It' Boy" and he is referred to as "wunderkind" and "the next Tom Cruise". He was tapped by film director Ronald F. Maxwell for a role in Gods and Generals. He received positive praise in many different papers for his role in Superhero Movie, the reviews singled him out as the only funny part of the movie when the reviews were highly critical of the film itself. And now he has a recurring role on the A&E Network program The Cleaner. At the very least I request that this AfD discussion be relisted to generate a more thorough discussion. Thank you, Cirt (talk) 16:54, 7 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep per rewrite by Cirt. I'm going to assume the multiple independent sources add up to significant coverage under the basic criteria of WP:BIO. Morbidthoughts (talk) 18:04, 7 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Note: This debate has been included in the list of Television-related deletion discussions. —Cirt (talk) 18:18, 7 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Note: This debate has been included in the list of Film-related deletion discussions. —Cirt (talk) 18:18, 7 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep per User:Cirt and as per WP:N#TEMP in that "In 2001, he won Best Actor at the International Teen Movie Festival (ITMF) in Vaughan, Canada for his role in his short film Head Shot". Schmidt, MICHAEL Q. 18:24, 7 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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