Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Michel van Rijt (2nd nomination)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was redirect‎ to Ju-jitsu at the 2001 World Games – Men's fighting −77 kg. as an ATD. Personally, I won't do IAR AFD closures. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 00:18, 17 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Michel van Rijt[edit]

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Fails Wikipedia:Notability (sports) LouisOrr27 (talk) 21:39, 26 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Martial arts-related deletion discussions. LouisOrr27 (talk) 21:39, 26 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Multiple medals on important tournaments, assistant national coach. The statistics mentioned Notability (sports) are largely collected after he ended his career. The Banner talk 23:51, 26 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople and Netherlands. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 00:32, 27 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. I read the consensus based on past debates that coaches, especially assistant coaches and similar staff people, are not automatically notable, and therefore, must pass WP:SIGCOV. Bearian (talk) 16:23, 30 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- And his medals as a fighter? The Banner talk 16:59, 30 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  @The Banner, please read WP:NSPORT. Athletes are required to meet GNG and their pages must cite at least one GNG-contributing source, regardless of achievement. There is no presumption of notability through any means. JoelleJay (talk) 00:18, 31 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  By using statistics that are mostly collected after he ended his career? That is not a fair way of judging older fighters. The Banner talk 00:28, 31 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  What? What statistics? JoelleJay (talk) 16:07, 31 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  Wikipedia:NMMA The Banner talk 16:17, 31 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  @The Banner, no one is using NMMA as the basis of their !vote. Delete !voters are correctly citing GNG, which is required for the subject, and SPORTCRIT, which is required for the article. JoelleJay (talk) 01:30, 10 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  Please note that Wikipedia:NMMA is part of Wikipedia:Notability (sports), where WP:SPORTCRIT is also part of. The Banner talk 08:34, 10 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. A couple sentences preceding an interview is nowhere near enough IRS SIGCOV to contribute toward GNG. JoelleJay (talk) 00:20, 31 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to Ju-jitsu at the 2001 World Games – Men's fighting −77 kg as an ATD. Momentarily assistant national coach, article contains little context, main achievement (where he needs to be redirected) is not even listed! I hope all keep and delete sayers can get behind this ATD. gidonb (talk) 20:41, 31 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete- Source appears to be unrelated to this page. Nilpriyo (talk) 10:13, 01 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 23:08, 2 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ✗plicit 00:15, 10 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment I'm having a hard time trying to figure out my vote, so I will lay out my ideas and let people more well-versed in WP figure it out. First, WP:NMMA is irrelevant since there's no evidence he was ever an MMA fighter. Second, I didn't find any significant independent coverage of him, although it may well have existed in Dutch sources at the time of his successes. Third, he was twice a bronze medalist at the world championships and won a silver medal at the World Games. I think the bronze medals are more significant since the World Games event had only 6 competitors in his division, but he was clearly a notable (in the non-WP sense of the word) in the field of jiu-jitsu. Perhaps this a good case for WP:IAR, but that's a new claim for me and may be misguided. Finally, the redirect suggest by Gidonb seems reasonable, as redirects are cheap. So I've laid out reasons for deleting, keeping, and redirecting the article. I'll close by saying I think his accomplishments seem to make deleting the article harsh, but not without justification. Papaursa (talk) 22:48, 10 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.