Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Michel Mimran

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. A bit unusual, but it looks like some work has been done and the issue is likely a matter of editing rather of policy. Regardless, there is a lack of voting and plenty of comments, so I'm going to close as "no consensus", with no prejudice against refiling. Dennis - 2¢ 16:09, 26 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Michel Mimran[edit]

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Confusing and very poorly sourced, this article seems to have been a direct translation of the French Wikipedia article by a single issue editor. Apart from some claim to have been selected for something while a student, I can't see any evidence (or claims) of success, or reviews, or news coverage. Citations are largely to the galleries, or Saatchi online website, or businesses where his work was displayed. Fails WP:GNG and WP:ARTIST. Sionk (talk) 00:39, 18 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Hi,

I see that you asked for the deletion of the page, and I’m surprised by this. I can’t see why you’d ask to delete an article which is part of contemporary art. Wikipedia requires sources for every claim made, and I believe those were provided for the page of Michel Mimran. Of course, the perception regarding the « quality » of the sources differs from person to person. You are asking for « evidence » of success, and I believe that a Diploma of the prestigious Ecole Nationale des Beaux-Arts of Paris, (FYI : he had the diploma n°3000 in 1976, for an institution that has existed for several centuries) along with notable exhibitions fit in that category. The Ecole Nationale des Beaux-Arts of Paris hasn’t scanned the works of its former students, hence why no links could be attached to the article. Tangible proofs, such as Beaux-Arts and Architecture diplomas, are in paper form.

You may also not be aware that the CAL (Cercle artistique du Luxembourg), which is also cited in the references, is the official art institution/academy in Luxembourg. To be part of the CAL, is also an « evidence » of success. Not every artist can be part of it : it requires to pass the selection and have had three successful exhibitions for 3 years in a row. Michel Mimran is also one of the only foreign members of the CAL. You can see it here : http://cal.lu/galerie.php

If by « evidence » of success, you’re are referring to the lack of art galleries mentioned, here’s the reason : Michel Mimran has enough private art collectors and welcomes his clients in his atelier in Luxembourg. He’s still working on the field of memory in art and continuously produces artworks.

The news coverages, mostly come from RTL channel in Luxembourg (part of RTL group, Europe's leading entertainment company) (Links n° 6 & n°7) I am sorry it seems confusing to you, but these are part of the Luxemburgish press. I’ll update some links as I’ve seen one or two have changed since the creation of the page. It's a problem that can occur with « online links » : they don’t always remain active and online. I have also plenty of tangible sources /news paper articles, diplomas, press coverages, that are not available online.

I wish you did contact me to express your opinions first, rather than immediately upload a wikipedia page deletion. Wikipedia also stands for freedom of expression. This page has been written after a lot of researches, I see that you have two University degrees. So do I, in Literature and History/Political science. I speak 4 languages, and I have multiple interests, -contemporary art is one of them. This article is not a fancruft, it’s a biography about a French contemporary artist and architect. I have left countless informations aside, because I’m aware of Wikipedia’s source policy, (just to name one : As an artist, Michel Mimran was asked to be a member of the Association des Trophées francophones, but this sort of information is not published online obviously) Michel Mimran is part of the contemporary culture scene, and none of the material used is unsourced and potentially libelous and harmful.

Wikipedia is one of the largest general reference work. Since anyone can access and edit the website, it’s also the opportunity for people from all around the world to share their knowledge. We can always learn someting new. You may/or may not be aware of the work of Michel Mimran, but this is also what Wikipedia is for : to gather knowledge from all over the world and make it accessible to the majority of people.

Nevertheless I’m very glad to see the interest you’re showing in this artist, and if you’d like to have a look at the artist’s work, you’re more than welcome to give me an email and I’ll transfer it to the artist, who will send you pictures of his latest artworks. Sincerely, Think88 (talk) 18:03, 22 October 2014 (UTC)Think88 — Preceding undated comment added 12:21, 18 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of France-related deletion discussions. lavender|(formerlyHMSSolent|lambast 01:03, 18 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Arts-related deletion discussions. lavender|(formerlyHMSSolent|lambast 01:05, 18 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Luxembourg-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 01:05, 18 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Visual arts-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 01:06, 18 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Architecture-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 01:06, 18 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 01:06, 18 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - Hello, Think88. For an article to be eligible for inclusion on the site, Wikipedia needs strong sources noting not just that an artist exists (and has their fans), but that their work is notable and discussed significantly by reliable sources. It's not a place to upload articles about people in the name of "freedom of speech" (because there are other venues for the promotion of artists). For example, sourcing your artist's work to a catalogue of an exhibition of their work doesn't necessarily tell us why their work is important in a broader cultural sense. Effectively, all this is is directly promotional of their work. Looking through the sources, they are mostly galleries where the artist exhibits. An artist may have many clients and a studio, but they need to be of wider cultural significance to have a Wikipedia article, and this needs to be demonstrated through the sourcing available (WP:ARTIST is a list of specific criteria M. Mimran needs to satisfy before he gets his own article).

Because the RTL link isn't working for me, I'm not going to make a judgement on whether their work is notable or not, but the article needs significantly more sources to third-party commentary on their work to judge notability. If you can find those for us, then the article could be revised to the point where it can possibly be kept. Additionally, more sources are needed for the first section. LS1979 (talk) 20:28, 18 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

CommentHi, thank you for the clarifications. I'll add some updates and more sources and third-party commentaries to the article, and hopefully prevent a possible deletion of the article. Sincerely, Think88 — Preceding undated comment added 17:35, 19 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Update: Hello, I've deleted several non-working links, and have added more sources ( newpapers and medias) coming from third-party commentaries. Some sources refer to his work on perception and its impact, and some confirm his birth and other informations which you were questioning. Sincerely, Think88 (talk) 18:03, 22 October 2014 (UTC)Think88[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.