Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Marlboro, Monmouth County, New Jersey

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. (non-admin closure) Rcsprinter₁₂₃ (remark) @ 20:51, 23 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Marlboro, Monmouth County, New Jersey[edit]

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The place does exist, but is identical with Marlboro Township, New Jersey. Suggested result is a merge / redirect to the parent article, which will restore the status quo that existed for the past nine years. All GNIS provides is the point where the populated place is located, which is within the township. Any content added to this article (e.g. regarding a post office), belongs in the parent article and should be merged there. Alansohn (talk) 04:06, 16 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of New Jersey-related deletion discussions. Alansohn (talk) 04:06, 16 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. It's a separate community taking up a tiny part of the township, as well as a defined "Marlboro Village Historic District" (p. 41). --NE2 04:22, 16 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The document is a potentially useful source for the township article. There may well be adequate material for an article for a Marlboro Village Historic District, but I'm not sure that it's this article. Starting it off as a section within Marlboro Township, New Jersey would allow it to be hived off on a standalone basis if it reaches critical mass. Alansohn (talk) 04:39, 16 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Since you don't seem to be willing to do this, instead choosing to redirect without a merge, I must infer that you're making a disingenuous argument. (And why the redirect of Marlboro but not any of the other communities such as Beacon Hill?) --NE2 05:02, 16 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I would support a merge for Beacon Hill as another content-free place article. Marlboro is worse, because there seems to be no independent way to separate the populated place from the township. As I stated "Any content added to this article (e.g. regarding a post office), belongs in the parent article and should be merged there", I am proposing a merge / redirect. When I redirected initially, there was no content -- none whatsoever -- in the article. Alansohn (talk) 05:14, 16 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Huh? How would you separate Beacon Hill or almost any other unincorporated non-CDP place from its surrounding township? Marlboro Village has a historic district boundary, and even without that is an obvious street grid surrounded by farms and newer subdivisions. I can't even determine exactly where Beacon Hill is, except that it's presumably on Beacon Hill Road. --NE2 06:59, 16 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - The settlement named in the article--"Marlboro"--and the township the settlement is located in--"Township of Marlboro"--share the same name (like "New York City" within "New York State"), so confusion is possible. First, the GNIS entry for the Township of Marlboro shows that four settlements are located within the township: Freehold, Keyport, Marlboro, and South Amboy. As well, there is a separate GNIS entry for Marlboro. What's most interesting about the GNIS entry for Marlboro (the town), is that on the right side of the page there is a link to "ACME Mapper 2.0". When clicked, it zooms you to a little town (a hamlet really) called "Marlboro". But then if you back out of the map a bit, you can see a much larger overlay, which covers a great distance, and reads "Marlboro" (this identifies the township). Finally, the State of New Jersey recognizes the difference between the settlement and the township. Go to their search page and enter "Marlboro", and viola, you will see two listings: one for the town, and one for the township. Marlboro is a real place. Magnolia677 (talk) 04:58, 16 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Freehold, Keyport, Marlboro, and South Amboy are the USGS topo maps that include portions of Marlboro, not the communities within the township. "ACME Mapper", for the record, is showing USGS topos, which are one of many sources for the GNIS database. --NE2 05:02, 16 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

What this link shows is that there are four different USGS topographic map containing the feature, which are Freehold, Keyport, Marlboro and South Amboy. The chart has nothing to say about the independent existence of the place. The New Jersey locality search shows a paired place name for virtually every township and most other municipalities. The question is not if it exists but if the article will add anything. It might, but you need to make that case and you haven't yet. New York City and New York State are clearly different places with clearly different identities. Can the same be said for the two Marlboros? Alansohn (talk) 05:09, 16 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Yes. Marlboro Village is a small community within the huge Marlboro Township. End of story. --NE2 05:12, 16 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Where is it? Just how small is it? What are its boundaries? How many people live there? What's in Marlboro Village? I'm willing to see an article if there was osmething to back up all of these claims but I don't see it and I can't find it. Alansohn (talk) 05:15, 16 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - This article was nominated for deletion because "the place does exist, but is identical with Marlboro Township, New Jersey." Now the nominator is stating "the question is not if it exists but if the article will add anything". The nominator seems confused about his purpose. Any hamlet in New Jersey with a post office, railroad station, school, hotel, and multiple stores and churches--adds plenty to Wikipedia. This nominator seems confused, or the nomination was vexatious. I propose a speedy keep. Magnolia677 (talk) 05:24, 16 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Even with the source that NE2 has identified, and it's a useful one, there appears to be no definition of how Marlboro the claimed hamlet differs from Marlboro Township. The Marlboro Township, New Jersey article has more than 260 references, but not a single mention of a "Marlboro Village" until NE2 just added it. There might be something there, but no one has shown what it is. Alansohn (talk) 05:38, 16 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Speedy Keep per historic outcomes for AfD discussions of US places (WP:NPLACE) and per WP:NGEO. It is a commonly accepted standard that any reliable source reference to the existence of a place (in the US, anyway) past or present, is sufficient to show notability under the principal set forth in the very first sentence of WP:5PILLARS: "Wikipedia is an encyclopedia: It combines many features of general and specialized encyclopedias, almanacs, and gazetteers". (my emphasis added) And to answer Alansohn's query above, Marlboro township has a GNIS ID of 882118 and the populated place Marlboro has a GNIS ID of 878130. The township's GNIS entry includes several distinct coordinates, one of which is for the populated place of Marlboro. Your argument that we shouldn't include Marlboro because it is included in Marlboro Township is simply faulty. By that logic, we shouldn't include either because they are already included in the article on New Jersey. And I am in agreement with Magnolia677 that either the nominator is confused or this nomination is in bad faith. Witness the vexatious argument above where the nominator cites the search page for the term "Marlboro" in Monmouth County, rather than the exact cite to the populated place Marlboro, which is prominently displayed in the article nominated for deletion here. John from Idegon (talk) 19:28, 16 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. Given the fact that it's a Marlboro Village Historic District, it can warrant its own page. Even stubs can be expanded, though it may take years to, however, there is enough info for a standalone page. Tinton5 (talk) 22:55, 16 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to Marlboro Township, New Jersey or Rename to Marlboro Village Historic District -- I am coming out of hibernation briefly to comment that nearly all significant places with differentiated local identity have been covered by CDPs in New Jersey. Few are notable enough to be found in other sources. Historical maps show the Marlboro Post Office and school district, but that is all. See here: [1]. --ChrisRuvolo (t) 20:17, 22 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.