Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Marikamba Temple, Sagara

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. (non-admin closure) Shawn Teller (talk) 12:37, 27 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Marikamba Temple, Sagara[edit]

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Marikamba Temple, Sagara (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log | edits since nomination)
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Does not meet Notability guidelines WP:N , WP:ORG and religious organization WP:NRELORG Nimmoun (talk) 08:16, 10 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  • Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Architecture, Hinduism, and Karnataka. Spiderone(Talk to Spider) 11:24, 10 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep. It's not a religious organisation, but a building, so WP:NRELORG and WP:ORG do not apply. A poor article, as are many articles relating to India, but a surviving 16th century temple would be considered notable anywhere. It would undoubtedly be heritage-listed if India had a decent heritage-listing system, which sadly it does not. -- Necrothesp (talk) 11:22, 15 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete The article title it self mentioned "temple" and as per Wikipedia's WP:NRELORG : "Individual religious organizations (whether called congregations, synods, synagogues, temples, churches, etc.) must meet the notability guideline for organizations" .so this Temple doesn't meet Wikipedia's Notability criteria ( WP:N , WP:ORG , WP:NRELORG )Nimmoun (talk) 12:33, 15 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    • Ah, I see. You've misread the guideline. No, that isn't what it says (although I agree that it isn't very well phrased). Please reread it. It means when "temple" refers to the organisation itself, not when it refers to an individual building. The correct guideline for these is WP:GEOFEAT. And as you nominated it for deletion, we already know you want it deleted. -- Necrothesp (talk) 15:49, 15 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    • WP:GEOFEAT : "Buildings, including private residences, transportation facilities and commercial developments, may be notable as a result of their historic, social, economic, or architectural importance, but they require significant in-depth coverage by reliable, third-party sources to establish notability." Please reread above guidelines WP:GEOFEAT. Either building or temple, this article is not notable so Delete it due to Wikipedia's Notability criteria WP:N , WP:ORG , WP:NRELORG,WP:GEOFEAT Nimmoun (talk) — Preceding undated comment added 17:55, 15 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Speedy keep: I added two references and removed the notability tag. I spent about half an hour on this as an editor well outside my area of expertise who does not speak Kannada. I grant that the references aren't academic, but given:
  1. the notable festival
  2. the association of a Hindu saint with the temple's founding,
  3. the adoption of Marikamba by a ruler described as the "ablest" of his dynasty
  4. the folklore regarding the plague breaking out when temple was messed with (source verified with Google Translate)
...and come on, they had me at "16-foot chariot". How could this not be notable??? I am quite certain that more sources for all of this can be found. Those that are there are weak-ish, although better than in many India articles, but they do support much of the text.
Also, based on the image, the temple appears to be in very good condition, which is itself notable for a building of this age. It definitely belongs in a register of monuments. (Side note, the image also appears on the municipality website, so someone should look into its copyright status.) Elinruby (talk) 02:43, 16 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    • Elinruby Sir your added two new sources but one is not related to this temple and one is not working it is showing 404 error.

Source: www.newindianexpress.com/states/karnataka/2022/mar/21/marikamba-samiti-denies-charges-of-discrimination-over-fair-stalls-2432360.amp this source is about Kote Shri Marikamba Temple located in Shivamogga city .Google map link :g.co/kgs/xz3bHR and This Article is about Temple located in Sagara, Karnataka. Both temple are different only goddess name is same.
source: www.timesofindia.com/city/mysuru/nine-day-marikamba-jatra-starts-in-karnatakas-sagar-town-with-mangalya-puja/amp_articleshow/97712584.cms this source is showing "404" ERROR .Nimmoun (talk) 06:09, 16 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

(note: the above mentioned Websites are blocking traffic from Non Indian users, please try to use Indian VPN to access this site. this website only Mentioned name and photo of the temple no other information are available on this website they removed all earlier informations.)
As other users mentioned to keep this article due to "the notable festival,the association of a Hindu saint with the temple's founding,the adoption of Marikamba by a ruler described as the "ablest" of his dynasty ,the folklore regarding the plague breaking out when temple was messed with " all this are written on the basis of the Sagara City Municipal Council Website, Now this information are not available on the same website. Now question is if it is notable, historical, ancient temple and all the information is true than why this information are removed ? How can Wikipedia consider this archive site is reliable to keep this article ?. Now this article have multiple reason for deletion along with earlier notability issue other reasons are WP:RELIABILITY, WP:VERIFY, WP:OR earlier reasons WP:N , WP:ORG , WP:NRELORG, WP:GEOFEAT Nimmoun (talk) 08:30, 16 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Please stop your multiple voting! Use "Comment" rather than "Delete" to prefix your comments. -- Necrothesp (talk) 10:13, 16 February 2023 (UTC)-- Necrothesp (talk) 10:13, 16 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 08:10, 17 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  • Keep - whilst there are obviously a lot of religious buildings in India, I think it would be weird if a 400 year old building somehow wasn't notable. There are a few refs on the page, I think it is highly likely there are many more in Kannada (and/or other local languages). JMWt (talk) 10:13, 17 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: I have no idea whether the municipality changed to a different website, but it would not affect reliability, which would be weak anyway. The issue is whether the article *can* be sourced. I don't know why you're getting a 404 on the timesofindia link, but it works for me and I am not in India. Maybe try rebooting? I concede that the second one is a different temple to the same goddess in another city; my mistake. I saw several other mentions of other temples, but that one got me, you're right. However, I am with JMWt. It's hard to agree that a temple that is still in use after 400 years is not notable. @Kautilya3: is in touch with Wikiproject India and perhaps can put us in touch with somebody with Kannada or other language skills who can confirm or deny that the lack of sourcing is/is not a language issue. Elinruby (talk) 22:32, 17 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
PS: I removed the reference for the wrong Marikamba temple. Elinruby (talk) 23:38, 17 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep - This seems to be the most important temple for this subdistrict, attracting half-a-million pilgrims for its triennial festival. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 23:15, 18 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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