Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Manning Bowl (American football)

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. I find the WP:ROUTINE argument persuasive. henrik•talk 10:05, 24 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Manning Bowl (American football)[edit]

Manning Bowl (American football) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log)
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Same reasoning as Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Harbaugh Bowl, nothing truly special about these games. Eagles 24/7 (C) 23:41, 12 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

  • Delete per nom. There's nothing special about these games except that the quarterbacks were brothers. Similar connections could be made (how about when the Giants and the Panthers played, each team having a wide receiver names Steve Smith?). At best a blurb about their head-to-head matchups should be in each player's article. —Wrathchild (talk) 00:09, 13 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. Having WRs named Steve Smith is purely coincidence, unlike having brothers playing each other. Besides, whenever you watch a family play each other, the announcers would mention it, unlike 2 people with the exact same names. As I said on Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Harbaugh Bowl, these games are special in most ways, as most people wouldn't normally see a game between brother quarterbacks, especially since this is the first NFL game featuring brothers playing against each other. These games are also usually highly publicized and hyped, since these games are fairly rare. And according to WP:SPORTSEVENT, which states that Articles about notable games should have well-sourced prose, not merely a list of stats, these games are also popular among most fans. Also, since this article is fairly new, it may be a little early to discuss this. WP:SPORTSEVENT also said that notable games include: "A game that is widely considered by independent reliable sources to be notable, outside routine coverage of each game, especially if the game received front page coverage outside of the local areas involved". There are a lot of sources that give it a lot of coverage. — Preceding unsigned comment added by ZappaOMati (talk • contribs) 00:23, 13 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of American football-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 13:02, 13 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete. What next, "Jenkins Bowl" for the 2004 and 2007 games between the Packers and Panthers featuring brothers Cullen and Kris Jenkins? There are a number of siblings playing and coaching football, and the mere fact that their teams play against each other does not make those games notable. cmadler (talk) 14:27, 13 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    • Ooh! Ooh! What about the "Barber Bowl(s)"?! Tiki Barber playing against his twin, Ronde! When will that ever happen again? —Wrathchild (talk) 15:11, 13 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The difference, of course, is that QB is the most important position on a football team and these games have pitted two brothers who are likely destined for the Hall of Fame. There is no parallel or precedent in American football, it is a unique and notable occurence when these two are on the field against each other. Carrite (talk) 17:42, 13 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep - While some might think the brother-vs.-brother aspect is overblown, the phrase "Manning Bowl" is used in the press and this topic is sourced out and encyclopedia-worthy, in my estimation. We have pages on people that were on the field for just one pro game; certainly this well-done, sourced out topical article is the least of our worries when it comes to Wikipedia's professional football coverage. Carrite (talk) 17:40, 13 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
As opposed to what??? Instead of recaps being printed in the paper, perhaps they're laser etched on polished marble? Or does one seek President Obama offering guest commentary? OBVIOUSLY, post-game coverage is gonna be post-game coverage. The question is whether the run-up to the game is covered routinely — which in this case it most surely is not. Carrite (talk) 04:42, 21 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
As opposed to significant coverage that assumes the notability of these events in particular. Achowat (talk) 05:16, 21 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep per WP:SPORTSEVENT. This is a notable rivalry that is one-of-a-kind and throughout the careers of the two, has attracted large amounts of media attention. Besides, the media compares the Manning brothers in many other ways. Stedrick (talk) 14:08, 15 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete WP:ROUTINE game coverage per WP:NOT#NEWS. – Muboshgu (talk) 20:53, 15 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete. I'll reiterate my comments from the Harbaugh Bowl AfD: Just because there was coverage in reliable sources doesn't guarantee that it is worthy of inclusion in Wikipedia, as the general notability guideline acknowledges. The problem here is that this game doesn't meet the standards of notability for events. Lasting effects? Hardly. Duration of coverage? Nope. Also, per WP:ROUTINE, "routine news coverage of such things as announcements, sports, and tabloid journalism are not sufficient basis for an article. ... Routine events such as sports matches, film premieres, press conferences etc. may be better covered as part of another article, if at all." That's certainly the case here: a mention of the so-called "Manning Bowl" on each brother's biographical article would be more than sufficient. Terence7 (talk) 01:18, 16 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak delete. I should first perhaps mention that, due to my New Orleans connections, I have been watching both of the Mannings for a long time (Eli since high school). This AfD, like the pending one for Harbaugh Bowl, presents the question: what quantum of notability is necessary for an article about a regular-season NFL game? In some sense, every NFL game could be said to pass WP:GNG, since there's always plenty of contemporaneous coverage and then almost always further coverage later in the season and afterward. But we clearly don't want a separate article on every game, so we have to have some understanding of what sorts of games are unusual enough to qualify for their own article. Category:National Football League games has only 14 entries, at least two of which are currently being reviewed at AfD. The other games on the list tend to have truly famous plays (e.g., River City Relay, Miracle at the Meadowlands). There are others in other categories, such as the Heidi Game which is categorized under Category:National Football League controversies. Somewhat subjectively, I don't think the Manning games come up to this level. To the extent that there's some notability in the "rivalry" between the Mannings, I don't think it's limited to, or even particularly focused upon, their occasional games against each other, but more about comparing their overall careers, and how Eli has now surprisingly won more Super Bowls than his big brother. It seems enough to talk about these comparisons in their respective biographies. --Arxiloxos (talk) 01:25, 16 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete. Fails WP:GNG and WP:NSPORTS, specifically, WP:SPORTSEVENT. Contemporary coverage was routine; game will be forgotten; no books will ever be written titled "The Manning Bowl." When in doubt, ask yourself, what would Encylopaedia Britannica do (WWBD?)? A: Delete it! Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 17:03, 16 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep and retitle The rivalry between the two brothers surely is notable. They have played against each other, played in superbowls, and been statistically compared. The word "bowl" implies a single game, and they have played multiple games, plus been compared in other ways (e.g. Super Bowl wins). Really, the article needs to be refocused. Hellno2 (talk) 03:29, 18 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete - relevant information can easily be incorporated into the Peyton and Eli pages. Achowat (talk) 18:53, 19 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep The fact that the quarterbacks were brothers has generated coverage that in my opinion can not be considered routine as defined in WP:ROUTINE. The suggestion to refocus the article away from the games to the general rivalry of the brothers seems sound. Pax:Vobiscum (talk) 09:43, 24 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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