Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Madura Kulatunga (2nd nomination)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was merge to Madura English-Sinhala Dictionary. Courcelles (talk) 23:06, 18 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Madura Kulatunga[edit]

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Similar reason as last AfD. Fails WP:GNG. Most of the sources seem to either be interviews or coverage of the product, not him personally. Mdann52 (talk) 18:30, 11 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. Toffanin (talk) 19:26, 11 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Authors-related deletion discussions. Toffanin (talk) 19:26, 11 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Sri Lanka-related deletion discussions. Toffanin (talk) 19:27, 11 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect/merge to Madura English-Sinhala Dictionary, his only achievement. I'm far from convinced that either he or the dictionary really merits inclusion here, but quite certain that we don't need both pages. Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 22:24, 11 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect/Merge agree with Justlettersandnumbers and nom - the notability is more about the dictionary than its creator. Dan arndt (talk) 00:59, 12 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect/Merge yes, the sources are more about the dictionary than him. Jytdog (talk) 01:55, 12 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Before nominating to AFD User:Mdann52 did unconstructive content deletion from this article. User:Mdann52 removed well sourced & correctly cited key points of the subject and compare this article with previous AFD decision. Checkout this old revision of this page as edited by User:CactusWriter https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Madura_Kulatunga&oldid=679464214 We must improve this article from here. At that 1st AFD decision time Wikipedia editors cannot verify details about subject Madura Kulatunga without any English medium national newspaper articles. In Sri Lanka only 6 English medium national newspaper publishers are available. Currently we have 6 out of 6 English medium National Newspaper publishers articles about subject Madura Kulatunga. According to Wikipedia Notability guidelines subject "Madura Kulatunga" have WP:CREATIVE "3. The person has created, or played a major role in co-creating, a significant or well-known work". 112.134.126.65 (talk) 02:23, 12 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

You are reaping the harvest of your own design - you came into IRC and asked for assistance rewriting the article, and so you cannot complain that Mdann52 took the steps that they felt necessary to clean up the article. You created a dictionary, and that's the entirety of your contributions towards notability. You should get a byline in the dictionary entry, but nothing more. Primefac (talk) 03:08, 12 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Since beginning, I got support from Wikipedia Live Chat (IRC) to create Draft:Madura_Kulatunga article. I did all the things they told me to do. Lot of things they changed, remove, etc. Then they told me to submit it for review. Reviewer also found errors and rejected several times. Then again I got help from Live Chat (IRC) support and correct those errors. This happens several times. Finlay my draft got approved and become Live article. Then again User:CactusWriter 'Administrator & Senior Editor III' revised this entire article completely with his neutral point of view. However User:Mdann52 deleted well sourced & correctly cited key points of subject. 112.134.57.212 (talk) 04:11, 12 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

112.134.57.212, it's certainly unfortunate ~~that~~ if you were given poor advice on IRC. You should have been asked to read WP:AUTOBIOGRAPHY and/or WP:COI, as well as WP:COPYOTHERS, and then asked to have the decency to wait until an independent editor found Kulatunga interesting and notable enough to merit an article here. But poor advice received on IRC is not in any way a justification for keeping an article.

If you have a Wikipedia account I suggest that you log in and edit from there; the use of constantly-changing IPs may be confusing to other editors and could give an impression of sock-puppetry. Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 09:07, 12 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

As a clarification (since I don't want people thinking the helpers in IRC give bad advice) - we have from the beginning warned Kulatunga about autobios, COIs, and copyvio issues. After the first deletion we advised to go to WP:RA, to not directly copy, to avoid promotional language and fluff, etc. This is a case of "if mother says no, ask father" in that, despite half of the active helpers telling him the subject was not notable (in their eyes), he continued to ask for help from others. It was his choice to push his POV and not listen to the advice given. Primefac (talk) 13:53, 12 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@User:112.134.109.94, as I have explained at the talk page, I believe that you have misunderstood the meaning of my edit summaries. I only edited out what I considered to be the more egregious parts of the article, as was necessary, to try and bring it towards compliance. The policies and guidelines I cited were relevant to my edits -- however, it doesn't mean the article was completely edited, nor that no more editing was needed, nor that it was fully compliant with Wikipedia's content policies. Compliance is determined by consensus among all editors. (Please note that an "administrator" or "senior editor" tag is irrelevant here -- all editors are on an equal footing when determining editing requirements.) My own opinion is that the article fails on a number of issues and I am pleased to see that they are being addressed here and at the talk page discussion. — CactusWriter ^(talk) 18:32, 12 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect/merge per my (and the other) above comments. Primefac (talk) 03:08, 12 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to Madura English-Sinhala Dictionary per WP:BLP and WP:BIO issues of notability. The sources and text are primarily relevant only to the dictionary. There also seems to be the continuing problems of COI and self-promotion -- the same issues expressed at the previous AFD last March. — CactusWriter ^(talk) 18:51, 12 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Comment According to Wikipedia:Notability (people) we can have standalone article about Madura Kulatunga because subject meet following criteria.

WP:BASIC if they have received significant coverage in multiple published secondary sources that are reliable

WP:CREATIVE The person has created or played a major role in co-creating a significant or well-known work or collective body of work.

Following Sri Lanka national newspaper articles addresses the subject Madura Kulatunga directly and in detail.

[1] Madura's moxie : Sunday Observer (Sri Lanka) - Youth Observer : 17-May-2015 : Page 8-9

[2] Madura Kulatunga, a commendable contribution : The Island (Sri Lanka) - Watchout : 24-May-2015 : Page 15

[3] Madura's story : The Nation (Sri Lanka) - insight : 21-June-2015 : Page i10

[4] A humble success story Madura Kulatunga : The Daily Mirror (Sri Lanka) - Features : 15-July-2015 : Page A12-A13

[5] Effectively bridging the language gap : Ceylon Today - Hello : 26-July-2015 : Page 2

[6] 'මේ වෙනකොට ලක්ෂ නවයක් මධුර ශබ්දකෝෂය බාගත කරගෙන' මධුර කුලතුංග : Dinamina - Features : 08-August-2015 : Page 20

[7] Madura Kulatunga's Notable Achievements : The Sunday Leader - Weekend Leader : 30-August-2015 : Page 2

Only 6 different English medium national newspaper publishers are available in Sri Lanka. All of them are published articles about subject Madura Kulatunga. Those publishers are Associated Newspapers of Ceylon Limited, Upali Newspapers, Wijeya Newspapers, Rivira Media Corporation, Ceylon Newspapers and Leader Publications. Thank you 112.134.93.200 (talk) 13:23, 13 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Keep I accepted the article. In a nutshell, I felt that if the subject lived in the West, he would not be notable. However, the topic should be considered in the context of Sri Lanka, where it IS. The story he cited persuaded me: "A humble success story Madura Kulatunga". In the States, no mainstream newspaper would normally write such a piece, but in Sri Lanka, this was an inspiring piece about a well-intententioned developer who made something useful for his society. If it's deleted, obviously it should be merged with the app's entry. Wxidea (talk) 14:26, 14 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to Madura English-Sinhala Dictionary, which is the real topic and the topic of most sources. The information provided by editor Primefac was most informative, especially in terms of WP:DONTBITE. --Bejnar (talk) 03:52, 17 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.