Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of victims of the Virginia Tech massacre (4th nomination)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Delete per WP:NOT#MEMORIAL. If you disagree, please go right ahead and open a DRV. Stifle (talk) 11:32, 23 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

List of victims of the Virginia Tech massacre[edit]

A completely unencyclopedic article. Perhaps a couple of the victims are notable in their own right, but being one of many victims of a famous crime doesn't exactly bring notability does it? Furthermore, this article does nothing more than list the victims, certainly not conforming to guidelines under WP:LIST. All this can easily be merged with the parent article. Jmlk 1 7 04:37, 17 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Keep ~~Speedy keep~~ As the ~~fifth nomination~~ fourth nomination, I would expect compelling argumentation for the deletion of this article, which I just don't see in light of ~~four~~ three previous noms. erc ^{talk/contribs} 05:44, 17 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Perhaps speedy keep is too strong, as the article has drastically changed from the previous noms from a well-researched article with lots of facts to a mere list. I wonder what concensus there was for the change, as I can't find it. In any case, I changed my vote (let's not kid ourselves here, this is a vote after all) to keep, as I still think stronger reasoning is needed. erc ^{talk/contribs} 05:55, 17 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Delete per WP:NOT#MEMORIAL . Memorial purposes are the only reason for listing these names as if they were inscribed on a monument. We do not need a list of these unfortunate victims any more than a list of everyone killed in a plane crash, hurricane, tornado or a fire. The catastrophe or mass murder may have been significant and notable, but the random victims generally are not when they were simply in the wrong place at the wrong time. If they took actions which affected the course of events, as in inciting or attacking the killer, or holding the door shut to give others time to escape, then their role should be stated in the main article. Edison (talk) 05:51, 17 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Merge. I would suggest a merge with the Virgina Tech massecre page. I don't think it needs its own seperate page. Fattyjwoods ^{(Push my button)} 06:11, 17 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Keep per WP:NOT#MEMORIAL. Really. The second line of which states that people being honored must be notable in some way, which I think the victims here collectively are. MEMORIAL is meant to prevent Wikipedia from becoming littered with Memorials to Great-Grand Uncle Jimbo, not to prevent notable tragedies from being recorded. Bfigura ^(talk) 06:25, 17 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Strong Delete - per WP:NOT#MEMORIAL. As the prior !vote stated: The Event (the "notable tragedies") are notable, most of the people do not acquire notability for being peripherally involved (that would be inheireted). Another supporting argument keeping this Memorial at bey would come from the spirit of WP:BLP1E. Exit2DOS2000^•T•C• 09:23, 17 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - I don't think the list is appropriate as an independent article, the list is populated by people who are by and large not notable and appropriate information on the roles of several of the victims is incorporated into the (featured) main article on the massacre. Wikipedia is not a memorial and I don't think that having lists of victims sets a good precedent - will there be a list of victims for every bombing in Iraq that's been reported on, or a list of all the murder victims in New York City in 2008? Guest9999 (talk) 11:48, 17 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Wiki isn't a memorial, nor are these people notable except for the tragic way in which they died. Given they are notable for that event only, the only rationale for me to keep would be if listed in the page for the event. Minkythecat (talk) 12:40, 17 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. I agree the "not a memorial" argument applies here. The victims can be listed in the main article -- there aren't that many. And of course if any of the victims are independently notable, separate articles are warranted. 23skidoo (talk) 13:50, 17 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Lists of people-related deletion discussions. -- Fabrictramp (talk) 17:57, 17 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. Given that WP:N states "significant coverage in reliable secondary sources that are independent of the subject" as the notability threshold, this list applies, since the victims, as a group, have received such coverage. WP:NOT#MEMORIAL has to do with honoring departed friends and relatives, while this article has to do with documenting an important aspect of a significant historical event. HokieRNB (talk) 18:05, 17 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Comment The notability the group of victims in any tragedy gain from press coverage is not inherited by the individual victims. A famine, flood or earthquake is notable and any large group of victims is notable, but that does not justify listing each individual name, like a memorial. Edison (talk) 19:06, 17 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Merge into Virginia Tech massacre (and remove trivial location section breaks). --EEMIV (talk) 18:20, 17 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Merge Wow, thanks a lot for picking this week to nominate this article. Yeah, Wikipedia is not a memorial, but you don't have to be a jerk about it. Mandsford (talk) 22:42, 17 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Keep do not merge so as not to clutter. -- Y not be working? 23:52, 17 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Agree with above Keep and don't merge for the same reasons. ·Add§hore· ^Talk/_Cont 13:46, 18 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Merge to the main Virginia Tech massacre page. The list of victims is important and should not be relegated to a separate page. Personally, I like the formatting in the main Columbine High School massacre page (placing the list in sidebars), which I believe would not clutter up the main Virginia Tech massacre page.--FreeKresge (talk) 16:10, 18 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Keep This is not about whether or not the page is a memorial. It is about whether or not the event is notable, and there is no question it is. I can see it being merged, if the information is kept intact. Certainly, no information should be deleted whatsoever. (Statement is the same as Columbine, as feelings are the same). Brian Waterman, MS, CDP (talk) 01:45, 19 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. While this is sad, Wikipedia is not a memorial. The event itself is notable and more than adequately covered in other articles. KleenupKrew (talk) 10:01, 20 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Keep per Wikipedia:Lists (discriminate, notable, and verifiable). Sincerely, --Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles^Tally-ho! 18:25, 20 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Delete I think this clearly violates WP:NOT#MEMORIAL and has been kept until now because of our strong and misguided tendency to conflate news with encyclopedic content. Eusebeus (talk) 19:54, 20 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. WP:NOT#MEMORIAL does not apply. This policy tells: Wikipedia is not the place to honor departed friends and relatives. Subjects of encyclopedia articles must be notable besides being fondly remembered. These people are not my or anyone else here relatives, and they are notable as victims of a notable terrorism act. There also numerous arguments presented during several previous nominations. Perfectly satisfy Wikipedia:Lists.Biophys (talk) 19:57, 20 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Merge back to main article - most of the victims are not likely to be notable enough to warrant having theri own articles. The main object of lists is to identify notable subjects for articles. Peterkingiron (talk) 00:14, 21 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. Indiscriminate lists of victims are unencyclopedic. That the event is notable does not make listing all victims a must. This is a memorial, unless someone is willing to defend creating lists of victims of every event. I suggest you then start by "List of victims of World War II", certainly at least as notable as this and had _only_ 60 million victims - Nabla (talk) 23:29, 21 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Keep could be a very important list that lists important information. Yahel Guhan 01:22, 22 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Delete per WP:NOT--talk-to-me! (talk) 11:11, 23 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.