Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of nicknames used by Donald Trump (3rd nomination)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus to delete. After somewhat extended time for consideration, there is a clear absence of consensus to delete, a well-supported argument that even if trivial there is sufficient sourcing to meet WP:LISTN, and no reason to expect that continued discussion would lead to a consensus for deletion. BD2412 T 01:24, 12 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

List of nicknames used by Donald Trump[edit]

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Why the hell do we need such a silly pointless list? Slatersteven (talk) 13:31, 2 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Actors and filmmakers-related deletion discussions. Slatersteven (talk) 13:31, 2 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Politics, Lists, and United States of America. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 13:36, 2 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Delete The media might cover it at times in various places, but I don't see as how this is anything but mindless trivia. Dream Focus 13:54, 2 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Anytime someone calls someone something even once, doesn't need to be on a list. The reference for "Mr Tough Guy" [1] shows he said that once about the guy. The referenced sources aren't about the individual nicknames, don't explain why the nickname exist or why its significant, just briefly mention they have one when covering the person or an event. There are many Donald Trump articles that already exist, a brief mention that he used nicknames for people could be added to one of them. No reason to list all of them in their own separate list article. Dream Focus 22:32, 2 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

AS to policy WP:NOTEVERYTHING, we are an encylopeida, not listverse. Slatersteven (talk) 14:00, 2 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Delete As per above statement, just silly and has no place in a encyclopedia. 2 kewl fer skool (talk) 14:08, 2 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Comment. This type of list does have prescedent, as similar list about Stephen Colbert and George W. Bush both exist, and the latter one remained unchallenged since its creation in 2004. If the result of this debate is delete, I'll suggest proposing the other two for deletion as well. Tutwakhamoe (talk) 14:11, 2 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Please do, in fact I may not wait that long. Slatersteven (talk) 14:40, 2 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I did not. Slatersteven (talk) 14:44, 2 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

There's a high number of sources covering his use of nicknames, so keep. This is a perfectly fine list for us to have. Elli (talk | contribs) 14:53, 2 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
~~Delete~~ - The key policy here is WP:LISTN, which requires that the set of things listed has been discussed as a group or set by independent reliable sources. There are clearly many sources documenting the various nicknames Trump has used for people over the years, but very little discussing these nicknames as a set. The most obvious I can find in the article is the Fox News piece but that is at best an unreliable source (and see the current RFC which looks very likely to conclude that it is generally unreliable for post-2020 politics). I'll admit that I've not looked through all of the 239 sources listed at the article, so if someone can find anything in there that would meet NLIST requirements, please let me know. WJ94 (talk) 16:12, 2 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@WJ94: from the article: [2] [3] [4] [5] Elli (talk | contribs) 16:49, 2 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you, much appreciated. Meets NLIST so consequently I'd !vote keep. WJ94 (talk) 17:02, 2 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. Trivial and pointless. Do we really need more evidence of what sort of person Donald J. Trump is? Athel cb (talk) 16:23, 2 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Keep (edit conflict) It has been established at the first nomination this article meets LISTN, and that has not changed (look at Carrite's !vote there). The second nomination affirms this. "Silly pointless trivia" is a vague, unsubstantiated reason to delete, and is also the only reason most delete voters give. Snowmanonahoe (talk) 16:28, 2 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Keep WP:ATD - no other place to put this list. The list is notable based on the RS available. Lightburst (talk) 17:44, 2 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Keep It met WP:LISTN for the first two AfDs, and does so again. Even if Trump ends his days panhandling with an upturned MAGA hat, this list will still be notable. Edwardx (talk) 18:49, 2 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Regretful keep: I don't like this type of list. I think it's dumb. However, just as a topic, Trump's use of derisive nicknames has received significant coverage in reliable sources. Could use trimming, or better yet the inclusion of more prose to turn it from a pure everything burger to an actual analysis, but that is beyond the scope of this AfD. Curbon7 (talk) 02:35, 3 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Delete I think Maile66 and Chess make a very convincing argument on this article being just a giant BLP violation. I think the significant ones, like Crooked Hillary and Little Marco, are obviously historically relevant enough to warrant a mention at other articles, but I think this giant collection as a whole is wildly inappropriate in terms of WP:BLP. Curbon7 (talk) 16:44, 6 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Meets WP:LISTN due to the previously mentioned discussion of coverage as a group from reliable sources, which has continued recently with Trump's nicknames for Ron DeSantis: [6]. The list is certainly silly, but so is Trump and see WP:IDONTLIKEIT. Dingers5Days (talk) 14:06, 3 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. Yes, it is a stupid article about a stupid topic. But the world we live in is very stupid. As has been pointed out, there is a clear WP:LISTN pass from the number of sources which have reported on this topic specifically; some of the examples may be goofy but I don't think this warrants deletion. jp×g 07:24, 4 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. Beyond being entertaining, this article provides some useful sources to when/where certain nicknames came from that are academically useful. Also, as other editors have mentioned, clearly seems to meet Meets WP:LISTN. Could almost certainly use some trimming, but deletion seems like overkill and would result in some useful material being lost. Sammytwiki (talk) 16:18, 4 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Keep per Elli. RoadSmasher420 (talk) 04:33, 5 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Delete this article has long been a dumpster fire of WP:NOTNEWS. That the former president has a puerile fascination with handing out schoolyard bully names to perceived foes is undeniable, and should see coverage in an article such as Public image of Donald Trump. But to literally provide an exhaustive list that sees the masses scurry here to breathlessly record it, no, this is unencyclopedic crap. Zaathras (talk) 14:54, 5 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Wikipedia is not censored. Just because this may be "mean" or "offensive" towards someone, does not mean it gets to be kept free from Wikipedia. Cable10291 (talk) 13:20, 8 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
If you believe that I argued for deletion based on the perceived offensiveness of the nicknames, then that is a lack of competency on your part. If Donald Trump had the predilection to give cute and happy nicknames to his friends and the media mentioned those adorable nicknames, I would still be here voicing an opinion to delete. Zaathras (talk) 00:08, 10 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Keep as explained above. Anonymous-232 (talk) 19:25, 5 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
This is not a valid argument for deletion. Zaathras (talk) 00:08, 10 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - BLP violations galore. This is nothing more than childish mud-slinging labels Trump uses to insult and denigrate anyone who fell out of favor with him. This has no place in this encyclopedia that has worked so hard to present public figures with a neutral point of view. Using Trump's words to do the name calling is not encyclopedic or neutral. — Maile (talk) 22:25, 5 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I've spent a long time trying to maintain this article since the 2nd nomination (mine). Right now, it is full of endless and useless non-nicknames. I've gained consensus for a nickname inclusion criteria, [7] but nicknames are constantly added that disregard the criteria and that causes the list to be cluttered up with trivial one-offs or random Twitter insults.

What I would like is for any of the keep !voters to actually put some effort into maintaining this list. It's a lot of work to verify citations for this nickname list. Maybe some kind of quote requirement for citations might make it easier to verify nicknames without opening a new page. But crap like calling a TV host a "crazy maniac" or a world leader "that bitch" or an actress a "washed up psycho" are evidently not nicknames but just random insults Trump said once. Without active contributors this article is a dumpster fire of a WP:BLP violation so I'll vote weak delete since we can't have massive BLP violations that nobody is willing to deal with.

And yes, I consider it to be a BLP vio to just repeat verbatim a bunch of insults posted by some guy on a blog, even if that guy was the President of the United States. Chess (talk) (please

mention me on reply) 01:59, 6 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I understand your frustration on this, and also see the total list above as massive BLP violations. By comparison, List of nicknames used by George W. Bush, with perhaps the one for Putin, are not insulting. GWB's list seems more like good-old-boy harmless stuff that in some cases he might have used directly with the individual . Trump's are mean-spited and juvenile, and meant to cast aspersions on individuals. I don't mind the GWBush nicknames, but Trump's are embarrassing. BTW, good luck with your efforts here. — Maile (talk) 03:37, 6 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Cosign. I will try to use your 2021 RfC as a basis for deleting some of the nicknames; I edited/deleted the nicknames for Alles, Barr and Biden and will continue later. Dingers5Days (talk) 15:29, 9 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

delete. please. this is ridiculous. lettherebedarklight 晚安 00:20, 8 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Meets WP:LISTN. PhotographyEdits (talk) 05:13, 8 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Strong Keep Meets WP:LISTN. There is absolutely nothing wrong with this list article. Did the original nominator User:Slatersteven even read WP:BEFORE before nominating this list? It's already been nominated twice within recent years and nothing significant has changed regarding the use of Trump's nicknames to warrant the removal of this list. Does the nominator have any reasoning behind this nomination besides calling it a "silly pointless list"? Cable10291 (talk) 13:18, 8 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: Amazing how many editors baldly assert "Meets WP:LISTN". It's not good enough to point out, well, here's an article in My Reliable Source that says, "Trump called Sally Jones 'Nincompoop Sally'". What is needed to meet WP:LISTN is multiple articles in multiple reliable sources that say, "Trump has a pattern of making up nicknames for people. Here is a list of plenty of them." Without such references, it fails WP:LISTN. —Anomalocaris (talk) 20:29, 8 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
[8] [9] [10] [11] [12] Snowmanonahoe (talk) 20:55, 8 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
This ^^. The pattern is there. Rkieferbaum (talk) 14:32, 11 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Strong Keep: Meets WP:LISTN (as it did in 2017 and 2020), as explained by many above. Derpytoucan (talk) 16:22, 9 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Keep meets WP:LISTN and is well referenced Qwv (talk) 17:51, 10 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Keep but the page needs some revisions. It meets WP:LISTGLOSSARY in my opinion, however there really should be additional literature discussing Trump's use of nicknames and the effects it has on voters. This will bolster its position as a notable page. _{too_much}curiosity (talk) 21:12, 10 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Delete, totally unencyclopedic. WP:LC applies. Stifle (talk) 08:33, 11 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Keep is it silly and pointless? Yes, but if we delete silly and pointless stuff from Wikipedia we'll probably have about half a dozen articles, if that. The list is referenced to as such by at least 6 sources, so it's not just a collection of isolated nicknames. Therefore it's covered by WP:LISTN and should be kept. Rkieferbaum (talk) 14:30, 11 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.