Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of musicians who play left handed

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Keep. Encyclopedic topic, lots of room for expansion. --Fang Aili ^talk 17:28, 9 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

List of musicians who play left handed[edit]

Unless being left handed had a profound impact on their career, this is an indiscriminate and trivial list. Spellcast 18:14, 3 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Weak keep If you're familiar at all with playing a guitar, you'll have to admit that most guitars are designed to be played "right-handed". Essentially, you finger the chords with your left-hand, and you "play" the guitar (the strumming and picking that separates the pros from the amateurs) with your right hand. It's not as easy as it sounds. It's less of a problem now, with backward-looking "left-handed guitars" available, but the problem is in the way that the strings are configured. Mandsford 19:25, 3 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Correct. Unless them being left handed is important and relevant, then there is no need for such a list. If it is relevant to someone, put it in their article. If we start getting a few, we can make an article about it. But I doubt that will ever happen. So delete it. i (talk) 19:26, 3 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Delete, not a notable intersection of traits. Axem Titanium 19:53, 3 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Actually left-handedness and mixed-handedness are both linked to musical accomplishment in adults. See my comment below for details and a WP:RS. - Neparis 22:14, 4 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Delete Just seems too trivial for a list on WP. I understand the difference it makes in learning to play but I think it makes more sense in context of the individual articles rather than as a grouped list. Interesting but not really very encyclopedic in my view. Pigman^what?/trail 20:30, 3 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Strong keep. Being left-handed is relevant here because playing left-handed is different from playing right-handed. There are books written about playing left-handed guitar. (added: Left-Handed Guitar: The Complete Method by Troy Stetina, for example.) Etc. Being left-handed may not have a profound effect on their career, but it has a profound effect on the way they play. Albert King, for instance, had a unique style because he was left-handed, as well as Elizabeth Cotten. They both played a right-handed guitar left-handed without restinging it, which made the string backwards for a left-handed person. It also affected the playing of Jimi Hendrix because he played right-handed guitars altered for left-handed playing, but leaving the controls alone, so they were on the opposite side as normal for him. Steve Miller (musician) thought that this was such an important factor in Hendrix's playing that he had a special guitar made that was essentially a left-handed guitar altered for right-handed playing. (added: In fact, the photo on that page shows him playing such a guitar.) Bubba73 (talk), 23:04, 3 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

PS: this is a lot more relevant than, say, actors who are left-handed. I've been wanting to expand this artice to explain more about it. A left-handed person who plays guitar either (1) learns to play right-handed (awkward at best, impossible at worst), (2) plays a right-handed guitar upside down, making the strings backward for a left-handed person, leading to a different style, and (3) playing a proper left-handed guitar. And category (3) can be broken down into (3a) play a true left-handed guitar and (3b) play a right-handed guitar modified for playing left-handed. And (3b) involves problems with intonation and non-symmetrical bracing and other features of the guitar. There is a lot more here than meets the eye at first glance. Bubba73 (talk), 23:40, 3 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

PPS: I don't want to significantly change the article while it is up for deletion, but instead of deleting it, I would like a chance to expand it to more than just a list. Bubba73 (talk), 23:47, 3 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It would be best if you do it now, actually. If you can satisfy some of those who support deletion while the article is still being discussed, then it's all good. i (talk) 23:51, 3 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I don't want to do a lot of work on the article and then have it deleted. Bubba73 (talk), 01:11, 4 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

You've somewhat changed my mind after giving examples of musicians where playing left handed had an effect on their work. But how much can be said for the rest of the musicians in the list? Spellcast 10:51, 4 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Category-fy Also, please note there is a difference between being left-handed and playing left-handed. Fee Fi Foe Fum 23:31, 3 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

What does "Category-fy" mean? Bubba73 (talk), 01:11, 4 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

He means make the list into a category like Category:Musicians who play left handed. Spellcast 10:51, 4 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think that would do any good because it wouldn't explain anything. Bubba73 (talk), 15:26, 4 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Explanatory text can be added to the category header. Alternately, an article on left-handed musicianship can be written, and a link to the category can be made to look like a link to a list, as I have done with List of hip hop musicians from Memphis, Tennessee. Fee Fi Foe Fum 21:51, 6 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. This is exactly the type of information that is good for a list and bad for a category, and while it's not the greatest list in execution, it easily could be much better. Lists allow for sources and explication that categories do not (e.g. what type(s) of guitar a player had learned, or nuances of style). It is unquestionable that left-handed guitarists have been among the most influential rock guitarists and there has been speculation why this is so; there's a whole book about it. --Dhartung | Talk 04:47, 4 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The book is $350. I've bought 20 or so books to use as references for WP, but this one is too expensive. I'll see if I can get it through inter-library loan to use as a reference. Bubba73 (talk), 15:25, 4 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - meets WP:NOTE and WP:V. There is a statistically significant increase in the proportion of left-handers (and mixed-handers) in skilled adult instrumentalists, composers and singers as compared with a normal population, and this increase is not a consequence of musical training. Being left-handed or mixed-handed makes someone more likely to be musically talented. This link between handedness and musicality in adults has been well documented in WP:RS; see, for example:
- John P Aggleton (1994), Handedness and Musical Ability: A Study of Professional Orchestral Players, Composers, and Choir Members, Psychology of Music 22(2):148-156
- Neparis 22:12, 4 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Comment I didn't think that musicians playing left handed was particularly special. But after reading the comments by Bubba and the source given by Neparis, I see that it may not be as much of a trivial intersection as I thought. It would be good to see the article cite sources though. Spellcast 18:12, 6 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Request Please don't delete the article until I've had a chance to expand it. I'll try to do that within a few days. Bubba73 (talk), 19:21, 6 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.