Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of municipal flags in the Czech Republic

Add links
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.


The result was transfer to Commons and delete. Consensus is clear that Wikipedia is not served by a repository of all flags of all municipalities in a region. BD2412 T 19:20, 4 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  • Note: It appears (as per User:RandomCanadian) that the content of these articles is already sufficiently presented in the Commons category structure. BD2412 T 19:29, 4 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

List of municipal flags in the Czech Republic[edit]

[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!

List of municipal flags in the Czech Republic (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log | edits since nomination)
(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

WP:NOTGALLERY. Fram (talk) 13:00, 26 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Also nominated are the separate pages of flags:

We can repurpose them by adding info about the designs. SpinnerLaserzthe2nd (talk) 14:19, 26 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
A page like List of municipal flags of Central Bohemian Region has more than 500 flags (rough count), I wonder how you envision making this a manageable, encyclopedic, well-sourced list which somehow connects these flags (instead of simply having some info on the flag in the page for the municipality itself, if necessary). Fram (talk) 14:29, 26 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I sympathise with this comment. Perhaps a larger nomination is necessary if people believe these lists are unacceptable? But not sure how we can pick off one specific country. AusLondonder (talk) 23:41, 26 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
That's the problem because if we are to do a larger nomination, this could lead into a lot of complications. I do agree with Dream Focus that we should keep these articles if anyone founded these lists encyclopedic worthy. SpinnerLaserzthe2nd (talk) 23:53, 26 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
What complications? More people noticing and commenting to let them be? This should be discussed somewhere where it will get as much feedback as possible to determine if such things should be allowed on Wikipedia or not. This article is younger than others and has far less pageviews so fewer people would notice it being nominated for deletion than many of the others like it. Dream Focus 00:02, 27 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah I think this is potentially something that needs to be discussed at a wider forum given we're not talking about concerns specific to this article but whether a wider series of articles is suitable for inclusion at all. Alternatively the entire series should be nominated for deletion. AusLondonder (talk) 00:48, 27 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
If anyone agreed that the lists are unacceptable, we can delete them and transfer them to Commons. Wikipedia actually had a Commons redirect template in case you aren't aware. So, this could come in handy. If anyone disagrees, then no need to transfer. SpinnerLaserzthe2nd (talk) 01:17, 27 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
A larger nomination would be a trainwreck. For starters, "these exist for all nations"? Uh, the national flags, yes, but not lists of flags of often tiny communities. Looking at the first one nominated here, Bílkovice has pop 194, Blažejovice has pop 101, Čechtice has pop 1400, and so on. Which other country has flag lists for such small communities? Flags of countries, big cities, ... usually are notable on their own, have lots of reliable sources about them. Flags of small communities have a primary source verifying them, and that's it. At the very best a local newspaper writes an article "village X now has a flag". The entries in the lists at AfD are not comparable at all to the vast, vast majority of entries in these categories, and lumping them together in one AfD would not be acceptable. Fram (talk) 07:27, 27 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Flags of cities of the United States featuring Hermann, Missouri (pop 2,185). Flags of cities, towns and villages in the United Kingdom featuring Evenley (pop 571). See the entire article series at Lists of city flags. AusLondonder (talk) 08:11, 27 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
So? There exist a few similar ones which probably also should be deleted or trimmed and turned into informative pages about the notable entries. Wp:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS, and not nearly as commonplace as Dream Focus wanted us to believe ("all nations" no less). If the ones nominated here are deleted, then perhaps grouping all truly similar ones from other countries in one new AfD may be feasible, though I doubt it would be wise. But I see no reason to dilute this AfD by adding some lists from other countries, I have too many bad experiences with people then claiming that the AfD becomes unmanageable, that I am combining incomparable articles into one AfD, that people don't have the time to research that many articles at once, and so on. Fram (talk) 08:23, 27 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Nothing to research since its the same issue with all of them. And I linked to Category:Lists and galleries of flags. Most of the 178 in the main list there are lists of flags by nation, and 8 of the sub-categories are for nations with multiple lists. There are 195 nations in the world, so most of them have an article for their flags here, so yes, quite commonplace. Dream Focus 09:39, 27 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Are you seriously claiming that a list of the main flags of a country is comparable (and should be bundled) with a list of minicipality flags? Because it sure looked like you were arguing that we had similar lists for all countries ("shows these exist for all nations.") and that all of these should be treated the same and discussed together. If that wasn't your intention, then bringing them up did nothing to help the discussion and only muddied the waters. If you on the other jand seriously thought that these belinged together in one AfD, then, well, you are wrong. While many of them need thorough cleanup or in some cases deletion, they are not, for the most part, in any way comparable in scope to the ones discussed here. Fram (talk) 09:45, 27 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The bottom of the nominated articles have a template Template:Lists of city flags that links to the articles for municipal flags of cities "By nations". You can't argue those aren't the exact same as the ones nominated here. The rest have their municipal flags in their main national lists. If its too long to fit there, its spun off to its own article. If its valid information in the main articles, then its valid as spinoff articles. Dream Focus 10:06, 27 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Most have their municipalities' flags in their main flag article. If its valid information there, its valid to be spun off to its own article if too long. Dream Focus 09:54, 27 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
(ec, reply to older version of your post)List of Albanian flags has 5 municipalities, one of which has a separate article for that flag. List of Armenian flags again has 5 municipalities, again including one with a separate article for the flag. List of Austrian flags has no municipalities. List of Azerbaijani flags has no municipalities. List of Bahamian flags has no municipalities. List of Bangladeshi flags has no municipalities. List of Barbadian flags has no municipalities. List of Bhutanese flags has no municipalities. List of Bruneian Flags has no municipalities. List of Bulgarian flags has no municipalities. List of Burmese flags has no municipalities... Yes, some others do, but it's a far cry from "most", and it still is a WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS argument. Fram (talk) 10:09, 27 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Again, I don't agree that it is necessarily valid information elsewhere, and I don't agree that it should be necessarily treated the same for all countries. Some may have a much longer tradition of and more literature on their municipal flags. Many only list major cities, where the flags are more likely to be notable in themselves. Not all countries can and must necessarily be treated the same way, and many of these articles aren't comparable at all. Lumping them together would not create a better AfD. That doesn't mean that many of the other ones don't need trimming or deletion as well, but not tackling all of them at once is not a reason to keep these, and you haven't given another reason so far for your keep vote. Fram (talk) 10:12, 27 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep. If we are going to establish a principle through AFD that such lists don't belong, then we should start with Flags of counties of the United States and/or Flags of cities of the United States. That's liable to attract a much wider input than picking on a small European non-English speaking country with a small number of editors interested. It is not at all clear to me that NOTGALLERY was ever intended to apply to list articles with a clearly finite number of possible entries. It's a wholly different situation from a gallery of cute dogs for instance. SpinningSpark 11:17, 27 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    • I am not trying to establish any principle, for some reason everyone else here wants to include other lists as well. Counties or cities aren' municipalities, the US is not Czechia, and what may apply to one country may or may not apply to another country. If you aren't clear on what NOTGALLERY means, then you can try to get clarification at a village pump or a policy talk page. But keeping an article just because, well, something (I have no idea what reason you have to actually keep these), is just disruptive. I don't know why so many people apparently have trouble discussing a series of articles on their own merits and all have bizarre suggestions about how we can't have an AfD for these articles unless we also or even first discuss these other articles. Fram (talk) 11:44, 27 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    • I have started Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Flags of counties of the United States, feel free to give your opinion there (hopefully better supported by policies and sources). However, a US county has an average population of 100,000+, a Czech municipality has an average population of what, 2000 perhaps? And each country may well have a different scholarly or journalistic interest in their local flags. So again, the result of one should have no bearing on the outcome of the other in either direction, and the idea of "establishing a principle" should be abandoned (or the strawman ditched). Fram (talk) 12:06, 27 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak delete. I will start by saying that as an editor on English Wikipedia I almost exclusively focus on Czech symbols as I have created a lot of the vector files and try to add/update them in respective infoboxes, so in this regard you probably have your one person that cares about this, hi. I will not be participating in any broader discussion, however. I am objecting less to the multiple articles as they exist now, if they all become what Benešov District is becoming – even if it's just a mirror of the rekos.psp.cz database. I still think that a simple gallery belongs to Commons, finite or not. I had strong objections to the single large article with thousands of flags in its talk page but didn't feel confident enough to go through the enwiki bureaucracy which I am not used to. My other concern is that it's going to be a waste of time to keep such lists updated this being a niche topic as there is currently still about a thousand municipalities without a flag. They will all eventually have one, I am quite sure. Just last year there were 121 municipalities with a new or changed symbol. That could be solved by adopting Wikidata but that's a swear word on this language version. As a sidenote, someone above me is mentioning how small some of the municipalities with symbols are and the smallest one with official symbols currently is Kaničky, population 29, the smallest municipality (Vysoká Lhota) has 14 inhabitants but they haven't blessed us with a flag yet.--TFerenczy (talk) 19:44, 27 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete all per WP:NOT (multiple sub-points could apply). We are not Vexillopedia (which exists, by the way). This kind of page does not have any encyclopedic content. Nor could there be, because its purpose is inherently unencyclopedic: a catalogue of flags, without any secondary source for any pertinent commentary, nor anything to establish that the grouping is an encyclopedically interesting topic, nor any educational purpose, is simply a terrible idea which does not improve the encyclopedia nor provides any meaningful content to readers. These pages are essentially categories-masquerading-as-articles, and could just as easily be managed with a category tree on Commons, without having to violate the point of what an encyclopedia is. RandomCanadian (talk / contribs) 05:17, 28 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    Why is it no encyclopaedic? Flags are perfectly legitimate subjects of study. Atchom (talk) 17:02, 28 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    Vexillopedia does not have the feature to edit and not all flags were presented on the site. SpinnerLaserzthe2nd (talk) 17:48, 28 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    The Vexillopedia example was more a caricature to get the point across (i.e. Wikipedia is not an "encyclopedia of flags") than anything to do with what that site happens to be. RandomCanadian (talk / contribs) 17:56, 28 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    Something being a legitimate subject of study does not necessarily make it a topic worthy of an encyclopedia article or list page. An encyclopedia seeks to summarise existing knowledge, to provide an insightful summary of essential details. Not to cover every detail that exists about a subject: these image lists cannot possibly do anything but that, since there is no possible way for some encyclopedic context to be added to this kind of listing: it is a clear example of WP:NOTGALLERY. The broad range and diversity of flags, and the different information and context that might be associated with each one of them (even if there were sources written about this, of which the lists do not provide any evidence of), make it so that it would also make very little sense to organise this in this manner. What these lists are is the functional equivalent of a category: a category which not only is a better solution, but which already exists on Commons... Hence there is no reason to keep this on Wikipedia. RandomCanadian (talk / contribs) 17:54, 28 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete all Per WP:LISTCRUFT, it is the largely unreferenced gallery of images about flags. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 180.214.233.94 (talk) 00:31, 29 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Because they supposed to belong to Commons, Nuke em all SpinnerLaserzthe2nd (talk) 05:05, 29 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete all Due to WP:LISTCRUFT. MrsSnoozyTurtle 08:14, 29 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Transfer to commons Please ensure these galleries have an appropriate place there before deleting here. Reywas92Talk 02:27, 4 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    @Reywas92: commons:Category:Flags of municipalities of the Czech Republic by district... RandomCanadian (talk / contribs) 13:57, 4 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/List_of_municipal_flags_in_the_Czech_Republic&oldid=1086206520"