Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of extinct animals of India

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. Secret ^account 18:35, 14 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

List of extinct animals of India[edit]

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This list only lists one animal, which, by the way, is not extinct. We already have article List of extinct animals of Asia. Vanjagenije (talk) 10:05, 20 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Organisms-related deletion discussions. Northamerica1000^(talk) 19:39, 20 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of India-related deletion discussions. Northamerica1000^(talk) 19:39, 20 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Lists-related deletion discussions. Northamerica1000^(talk) 19:39, 20 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Keep If they don't even have one extinct animal, then their list is empty, thus no article is here at all. I see there is a category for this though. Category:Extinct animals of India So something to add to the list. I'll go do that now. Dream Focus 21:22, 20 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Keep per WP:DUCK - see Pink-headed Duck. Warden (talk) 22:09, 20 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Delete This article is really the intersection of two things "extinct" and "India." Animals don't respect national borders. Even the pink-headed duck was found in other countries besides India. Also the territory of India has changed over the years so a species living in Pakistan or Bangladesh was in the past living in India. It makes more sense to me to limit lists of extinct species to the continental level. And given that there are about 200 nations in the world that would save a lot of work and duplication. BayShrimp (talk) 00:16, 21 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Good points. Obviously we are just referring to the current nation of India. I think some might wish to see a list of things that are now extinct in their nation. Just like having a list of notable people from a nation or other location, this is the sort of thing people may be interested in see, and it is valid encyclopedic content. A lot of kids would probably love to see what dinosaurs once roamed the state they are in, among other interesting looking creatures. Dream Focus 01:10, 21 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Birds don't respect national or state borders either, however List of birds of Florida etc. are how things are commonly categorised. - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 01:55, 23 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - This is the standard method of categorisation for this sort of thing, and the list is appropriate and expandable. Sourcing is a problem but AfD is not for cleanup. - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 01:55, 23 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Mark Arsten (talk) 00:32, 28 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Question Why relist? Why not just close with keep since the votes are 3 to 1? I am the only delete voter and my opinion is more about practical considerations on WP than about any objections to the article itself. BayShrimp (talk) 01:12, 28 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - largely in agreement with BayShrimp's original comments. That there are four other such lists don't -- I wouldn't say -- justify anything. List of birds of Florida, by comparison, is entirely sourced with clear inclusion criteria. The article in question here cites zero sources. Furthermore, anecdotally, lists of things claimed by a country and/or granted a particular status of existence are going to be hugely problematic without explicit standards (in this case, for example, that a source be given for both its extinction and population in India). --Rhododendrites (talk) 17:35, 29 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

My vote is still delete. One other thing about the article is that it seems to include dinosaurs who lived in India before it became a part of Asia. That seems a little crazy, but not the craziest thing on WP. BayShrimp (talk) 16:24, 4 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Mark Arsten (talk) 00:47, 9 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Delete - I agree with BayShrimp, Keep lists of extinct animals to landmasses to reduce workload and to keep it simple. Retartist (talk) 03:41, 9 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to List of extinct animals of Asia as a possible search-term. Lugnuts ^{Dick Laurent is dead} 09:56, 9 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - article now has a list of extinct animals of India, a sharply-defined set of inclusion criteria which are clearly distinct from (Extinct AND of Asia), so the article is rightly structured with unique contents. Chiswick Chap (talk) 10:00, 9 November 2013 (UTC)\[reply]
- Comment - Where is this sharply-defined set of inclusion criteria? Do you mean the name of the article? Extinct according to who? What does "of Asia" mean and why would it be of Asia and not of India? "List of kitties in my backyard" would have the same basic criteria, structure, and level of sourcing. (Exaggeration, of course, but without reliable sources, there's no list that couldn't be kept). I would refer again to List of birds of Florida as an example of a list that despite having a name also has specific inclusion criteria. --Rhododendrites (talk) 14:44, 9 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - Asia is a massive continent and India is an extremely large country within it, there are evidently several extinct animals native to the country which can be listed, though some tightening up of the inclusion criteria and description of the animals would help make this list useful. Sionk (talk) 14:45, 9 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - Subjecting the list to a little additional scrutiny...
- Discoceras - article still lists it as being in India, nothing about extinction
- Hyperodapedon - "Hyperodapedon is known from several species and has been found in many areas of the world, due to the continents being joined together in the supercontinent Pangaea during the Triassic." It goes on to list several places where fossils have been found, including India, but it seems this could be added to just about every geographically based list of extinct animals...
- Javan rhinoceros - It's Javan. It's from Indonesia.
- Pink-headed duck - Again not actually listed as extinct. Critically endangered and might be extinct, but not officially. --Rhododendrites (talk) 14:58, 9 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

***The duck is extinct, all the experts say so, there just some rumor that it might still exist somewhere, but no evidence. Dream Focus 15:25, 9 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

- - The Javan rhinoceros is extinct in India and much of the world, but still found in one area. Hyperodapedon is extinct and should be on the list. Has any Discoceras been found that weren't fossils? Is that species still alive? Dream Focus 15:30, 9 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
    - Further proof there's no clear inclusion criteria here. The standard source for such things, as cited in the article: http://www.iucnredlist.org/details/100600468/0. The skeptical view is reflected in the article, but what kind of criteria would say "include it here if you don't think there's enough proof, even if the IUCN says otherwise." Javan rhino is from Indonesia, not India. Again, I would say what in God's name is the inclusion criteria if that, along with your OR/opinions on Discoceras and pink-headed duck mean it goes on the list?? --Rhododendrites (talk) 15:34, 9 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
    - Who is the authority we can look to for determining whether an animal that is not extinct is extinct in a particular country? The Javan Rhino is another one that the IUCN doesn't list as extinct. I ask skeptical that there is such local specificity because animals are moved around so much, but without actual knowledge that there is not one. --Rhododendrites (talk) 15:36, 9 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
      - My mistake. I removed pink headed duck. It is on their list of critical but not extinct creatures. The map for the Javan Rhino article shows it used to be common in India. Unlike a bird, you'd notice if any rhinos were still around an area. So they are certainly extinct in that nation. I guess we could call the article List of animals that are now extinct in India to clarify things. Dream Focus 15:40, 9 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.