Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of The Late Late Show with Craig Ferguson episodes

This discussion was subject to a deletion review on 2022 May 3.
For an explanation of the process, see Wikipedia:Deletion review.

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. This would result in a complete mess if this closed any differently to the recent Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of The Late Late Show with James Corden episodes. Many of the same participants are here advancing the same arguments. I'm not seeing any overriding delete argument that mark this out as being different to the other episodes. SpinningSpark 09:51, 26 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

List of The Late Late Show with Craig Ferguson episodes[edit]

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A talk show is not episodic, so a list of episodes has no encyclopedic value and runs afoul of WP:IINFO. The fact that the show had guest hosts after Craig Ferguson can be noted in the main article. Ten Pound Hammer • ^{(What did I screw up now?)} 00:01, 2 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Television-related deletion discussions. Ten Pound Hammer • ^{(What did I screw up now?)} 00:01, 2 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Lists-related deletion discussions. Ten Pound Hammer • ^{(What did I screw up now?)} 00:01, 2 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep per the last AfD. -- Tavix ^(talk) 00:49, 2 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think "keep per an AFD that closed as 'no consensus'" is a very convincing argument. Ten Pound Hammer • ^{(What did I screw up now?)} 03:37, 2 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

It's exhausting to have to explain the definition of "indiscriminate" again, so I made it easy and simply pointed to my previous effort. I am also in agreement with those that argued in favor of keeping in that AfD. It may not be convincing to you, but I am hopeful that others read the previous AfD and are convinced that these lists should be kept. Thanks, -- Tavix ^(talk) 11:25, 2 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Delete all per nom. Wikipedia is not TV Guide. Clarityfiend (talk) 10:56, 2 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Articles with episode information are common for notable tv shows, and Late Shows would be a good case for episode lists due to interest in guests. The fact that Craig Ferguson's version is a more notable version of a Late Night than other hosts incarnations seem to be a compelling reason to keep the Episode/Guest list. Deathstrike9k (talk) 23:07, 2 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Keep as it is a valuable tool for notable shows. Craig's show was unlike anything else and with episodes from the run going up on Youtube, it has only added to the following as more and more people are finding the show that didn't catch it the first time it ran. The guide is great for those interested in finding episodes that contain certain guests. Walkinfaster (talk) 03:33, 4 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

— Walkinfaster (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. Ten Pound Hammer • ^{(What did I screw up now?)} 03:34, 4 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I am not sure I see why this is relevant to the deletion question.69.71.12.172 (talk) 16:26, 8 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Delete Essentially this is only sourced to IMDB, and repeats info that is on IMDB. I see no reason for it to be in WP, especially without reliable sources. Lamona (talk) 03:28, 5 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Keep as per arguments in >the last AfD. The show was respected as unique among late night shows for pushing the boundaries of the format and even of network television.

It evolved over its history with Ferguson creating a cast of characters using puppets (from hand puppets to an animatronic skeleton, and a pantomime horse); incorporating equipment failures; and using the show's normally behind-the-scenes staff on camera. Key episodes have begun to be documented in the full list with information about the show's evolution, and which is not included in IMDB, but drawn from the news and the 1300 episodes in the Youtube archive.

The show was covered in the news for notable monologues or performances about once every four to six months. It again appeared in the news when Ferguson's 2007 Britney Spears monologue again went viral early this year. The show is rated (in the admittedly highly subjective IMDB) second only to Johnny Carson. 69.71.12.172 (talk) 16:26, 8 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@69.71.12.172: And which of the many points in your filibuster meets WP:GNG? Ten Pound Hammer • ^{(What did I screw up now?)} 16:43, 8 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
— 69.71.12.172 (talk) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. Ten Pound Hammer • ^{(What did I screw up now?)} 00:40, 9 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Due to severe health problems, I can no longer edit frequently and have dispensed with logins. My former user name was User:Peacedance, under which none of the over 3000 edits I made from 2009 to 2019 were made on this or related articles.

On notability, individual items in list articles aren't required to be notable, a point covered in the >the previous AfD. Most of the points made above have been made in major entertainment press outlets, and can be documented as such. 69.71.12.172 (talk) 18:59, 9 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 03:09, 9 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Though I've tried to argue in the past we don't need guest lists for daily talk shows, as long as they're properly sourced they're not causing any harm...and harm would be done if we tossed out the guest host article, as we'd have to clumsily throw that info into a textwall into the overall LLS article. Also tiring of the nominator's attacks on individual votes! just because of edit counts/IP status; please stop doing so. Nate • (chatter) 01:20, 10 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
At least two editors were clearly brought here from outside forces, as one has never edited anything before. And at what point is "doing no harm" a reason to keep? The episode lists are utterly unsourced. And listing all the guest hosts in any format is WP:IINFO. This is Wikipedia, not IMDb. Ten Pound Hammer • ^{(What did I screw up now?)} 02:49, 10 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Comment If there's canvassing, it'll be found out. As long as it's not a brigade of "Do not delete (spam 64 social media pages)" obvious types, I have no problems with the IPs in this discussion. Nate • (chatter) 22:17, 10 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Keep As I said at the AFD for this last year: This is valid information that would not all fit in the main article, so these are valid spinoff articles, done by season since that's the only reasonable way to do it. Dream Focus 16:39, 10 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Delete yearly lists. Weak keep List of The Late Late Show with Craig Ferguson episodes. On the whole I think this is WP:IINFO and provides no valuable information, but the main List of The Late Late Show with Craig Ferguson episodes could be kept as a place to house the episode information if someone wants it. Natg 19 (talk) 18:03, 13 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Sandstein 08:55, 17 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Because of size restrictions, this information can't fit on the main article, so needs to be hived off into these pages. THere is a lot of interest in this show and his guest stars, so its worth keeping and of interest to the readers. Its already survived one AFD. Deathlibrarian (talk) 15:17, 22 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
It "survived" because there was no consensus either way. Consensus can change. Also, what proof is there that this is a topic worth having a list about? Ten Pound Hammer • ^{(What did I screw up now?)} 18:35, 22 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The fact that the information can't fit on the main article is not just because of size, but even then, the sheer size of the whole of it indeed shows how this is WP:INDISCRIMINATE information which wouldn't fit on any article, because it is well beyond the scope of what should be included in an encyclopedia, which is a summary of knowledge... RandomCanadian (talk / contribs) 00:24, 26 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Delete years list and create a single article with notable entries. SignificantPBD (talk) 19:55, 22 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Delete all. Wikipedia is not a TV guide/IMDB. Stifle (talk) 16:11, 25 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Delete all per my own previous nomination, because this simply does not belong on Wikipedia. Wikipedia is not a TV guide; not an indiscriminate collection of trivial information, not a fansite for hosting WP:FANCRUFT; and most certainly not a place to host content which, for the most part, does not have any reliable secondary source (which is what an encyclopedia should be based on) to verify the information within. RandomCanadian (talk / contribs) 00:19, 26 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.