Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of Provinces in Great Kurdistan

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete‎. ✗plicit 23:36, 7 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

List of Provinces in Great Kurdistan[edit]

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First of all, this concept itself is WP:SYNTH. This list has many references, and according to my own experience, the large number of sources often covers up dire problems in a recent article, because the article apparently avoids scrutiny this way. Likewise, the references that really pertain to the purpose of the article (tables listing the provinces) are very questionable. Problems as of this revision include but are not limited to:

Rûdaw is affiliated with certain political parties in the Kurdistan region of Iraq and was not even trusted by other Kurdish parties. Over 10 of the entries on the tables come from Rûdaw, which causes a serious issue regarding reliability. The rest of the sources themselves come from similar news outlets with clear POVs.
This article has a lot of problems with verifiability, for example nowhere on page 344 (ref 13), does Altan Tan say Kurdistan has a Mardin Province. This page and the next encompass the ethnic and religious diversity in Tur Abdin. Encyclopædia Iranica (ref 43) doesn't mention Kurdistan has a Hamadan Province. These constitute just the tip of the iceberg. It is evident that a lot of content will be removed due to failed verification when this article is scrutinized.
This gets funny, absurd, even tragic when the Turkish ministry of internal affairs (ref 15), a web page titled "Present and future Köppen-Geiger climate classification maps at 1-km resolution" (ref 17), Turkish government's mouthpiece Anadolu Agency (ref 18) are used to support that Kurdistan has provinces called Tunceli, Siirt, and Kahramanmaraş, respectively. We don't even need to access these sources, because there is 0.00 chance they would support the content.

Kurdistan is a roughly defined region with no set boundaries. Having such a list is thus not really appropriate. If this list is deemed necessary, there are some good sources on Kurdistan and various other pages, such as Encyclopaedia of Islam, that list provinces considered part of Kurdistan, but this list has so many problems a WP:TNT will save us a tremendous amount of time. Aintabli (talk) 22:48, 30 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Iran, Iraq, Syria, and Turkey. Aintabli (talk) 22:48, 30 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Lists-related deletion discussions. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 23:09, 30 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Strong delete. It makes absolutely no sense to list provinces/governates from four different countries together, none of them Great (sic) Kurdistan. Turkish apples, Iranian oranges, Iraqi grapes and Syrian kumquats? Clarityfiend (talk) 01:20, 1 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@Aintabli, @Clarityfiend, @Spiderone: Hello, you seem to want to delete this section of the list, so I would like to talk to you. So I want to say that you don't seem to believe the sources used in the article, when you have used all the sources yourselves in other articles about Iraq, Turkey, Syria and Iran.

As for Rudaw's source, which you say we don't believe because it belongs to Kurdistan, why are Rudaw's sources used in so many places on the English Wikipedia?. We also know that there are four Kurdistan territories in Asia, but you seem to say that they do not exist at all, Why are these things being said?.

Wikipedia has articles about Turkish Kurds, Iraqi Kurds, Syrian Kurds, and Iranian Kurds. There is also a main article called Greater Kurdistan.

I want to help you if there is a mistake and fix it together, but I see that you have mentioned several conditions, one of which is that the sources are meaningless. Therefore, I do not see these statements as justified and you have criticized me on several sources in particular, which is not possible.

Tessla (talk) 11:06, 1 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Please read WP:RS, WP:VERIFY. Aintabli (talk) 11:33, 1 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I think I might need to explain more, since there's a lot going on in that comment. I'm not sure who "you" is supposed to be directed at in the second sentence, because I have not used much of those sources neither did other experienced editors here put some random references, such as "Present and future Köppen-Geiger climate classification maps at 1-km resolution" (ref 17), to support their addition.

I am also not the one to answer why Rûdaw is frequently used in Wikipedia. (No one is responsible for that.) Inadequate sources may be found in some parts of Wikipedia, because they may have gone unnoticed. Rûdaw is not directly unreliable for all subjects, though. For such subjects as in this article, we should closely follow WP:NPOV and include a variety of objective and reliable sources. Using the same news site over and over again is not only questionable regarding reliability (expert publications should have been used) but it also causes a Wikipedia article to be dominated by a specific point of view.

Moreover, this list WP:SYNTHesizes a lot of sources to come up with "provinces" in Kurdistan. These administrative divisions are the creation of unrelated states, and they are not directly related to or congruent with Kurdish-inhabited areas. So, this list doesn't just merit deletion because of sources but due to a chain of multiple problems.

I have not in any way denied Kurdistan. I have also not regarded the sources as "meaningless" or criticized you personally. Aintabli (talk) 11:52, 1 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@Aintabli:Look, my dear friend, you may know that I am not an Englishman, I am a Kurd, so don't complain if I don't understand you well.

Instead of deleting the article, you can help me fix the problems in it. This is inappropriate. You want to throw all my effort into the dustbin. And I also ask you that we can help each other solve the problems in this article. The sources I have added have already been used on the English Wiki, and I have quoted them for the present article.

So here we were made aware that the sources are on the English Wiki, so we can’t help but rely on them. (Note:This article cannot be deleted until you and I reach a conclusion), thank you. Tessla (talk) 08:06, 2 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I'm sorry that an article you spent time on was nominated for deletion. Most articles nominated for deletion were also the product of hours of work, although imperfect. I tried to work on it a bit, but there is barely much difference with regards to the problems I pointed out above. Aintabli (talk) 12:48, 2 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@Aintabli: I have nothing to do with the other articles, sir. I would like to say that the problems in this article must be solved, even if there are many. I can solve it but I don't speak English very well because I am not an English person. Can I briefly describe the problems, please?. Tessla (talk) 09:49, 7 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Comment This seems like appropriate content for Kurdistan#Geography, it could be merged and/or reorganized there. I don't think this is appropriate as a stand-alone article though. Reywas92^Talk 17:48, 2 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
No it shouldn’t. Inappropriate WP:SYNTH is unacceptable anywhere. Merging into a better article doesn’t average it out with good content. Dronebogus (talk) 11:26, 6 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Delete there is no country called “Great Kurdistan” anymore than there’s a Great Romani Nation. Kurds are famously a stateless people, and this seems to be an attempt at WP:righting great wrongs by saying there’s actually a hidden official Kurdistan buried under several existing countries, or something. Dronebogus (talk) 23:58, 2 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Delete Subject does not exist. NavjotSR (talk) 16:06, 4 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.