Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of NFL records held by Jerry Rice

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. –Juliancolton ^Tropical ^Cyclone 02:39, 24 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

List of NFL records held by Jerry Rice[edit]

We already have List of National Football League records (individual) and why should one player get a seprate list for his records? BUC (talk) 18:39, 19 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Neutral Previously, that entire page was on the article Jerry Rice; since it was so long, I felt it should be moved to its own page. If you feel that the article should be deleted, then that's fine. I'm indifferent on the matter, just so long as it is not simply moved back to Jerry Rice. --Pbroks13^talk? 18:46, 19 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. A good example of summary style, although a lead paragraph should be added to the article for context. Not a content fork, as I was afraid it might be, because the subject is records Rice held at the time of his retirement, not records he/other players currently hold; an article name change might be necessary to clarify this. Notable because Rice's domination of the record books at the time of his retirement was extraordinary, one of the most notable facts about him, and a main reason for why he is often identified as the greatest football player of all time. Baileypalblue (talk) 20:38, 19 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Delete I'm sorry, but this is an obsessive compilation of a few "official" records-- i.e., those that are published the NFL Record Manual -- and a lot of original synthesis in the form of using real facts for "made-up" categories. They're all true, but how many different superlatives can one think of for one person? It's a great accomplishment that he holds the record for "Most touchdowns, career" (208), "Most Pass Receptions, Career" (1,549) and "Most Yards Gained, Career" (22,895) and "Most Yards Gained, Season" (1848), among others. So far as I know, the league doesn't have a category for things like "Most touchdowns made in one state" or "Most go-ahead or tying touchdowns" or "Most seasons with at least 1 reception" or "Most games with 10+ receptions & 140+ receiving yards", etc. And the honor of "Only player with a 40+ yard touchdown pass, a 40+ yard touchdown run, & a 95+ yard touchdown reception, & a fumble recovery for a touchdown" is one of many odd inventions made by the article creators. To pare this list down would be to defeat the purpose of it. Suffice to say that there are better ways to make the point that Jerry Rice was one of the greatest players in NFL history. Mandsford (talk) 21:46, 19 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Delete basically per mandsford. Part of a sports announcer's knowledge base perhaps, since he has to have things to say continually, but not part of an encyclopedia. I was going to add my own choice examples, but I don't want to distract from the fun of finding them oneself. Normally of course the need for editing is not a reason for deletion, but in this case i think that trimmed down to the appropriate part, it would be better in the main article. DGG (talk) 22:06, 19 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: perhaps you, Mandsford, or a similarly interested editor could delete the entries you consider to be OR, and let us see what's left. I think there's enough legit material in this article that the Jerry Rice article would be put out-of-balance if the legit material were merged back in; that seems to be the concern of the editor working on the Jerry Rice article. Baileypalblue (talk) 22:41, 19 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I think it would be more insulting of me to edit an author's work beyond recognition, than it would be for me to voice my opinion in a discussion. Jerry Rice has some very impressive records to be sure-- career TDs, career receptions, career receiving yardage at the forefront. While I don't think there should be a spinoff article, I would suggest doing a info box that highlights the records that are in the NFL's Record Manual. In that way, the flow of the article about Rice isn't disturbed, but the recognized stats are there. Mandsford (talk) 01:51, 20 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - Well written and sourced article on a notable person with notable records. No reason for it to be deleted. Hooper (talk) 07:45, 20 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Which sources are you referring to? Mandsford (talk) 16:16, 20 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I was referring to the fact that it is sourced as the numbers aren't made up. We can note where a viewer can go, online or in books, to see or read more on the individual accomplishment. Hooper (talk) 16:52, 20 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

What about the original research issues here. Secret ^account 22:19, 22 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Lists-related deletion discussions. -- • Gene93k (talk) 18:57, 20 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of American football-related deletion discussions. -- • Gene93k (talk) 19:00, 20 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Comment I just did a lot of work on this article. Enigma^msg 22:31, 20 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Keep The decision about how to present the information and what to include and exclude should take place on the article's discussion page. ChildofMidnight (talk) 02:55, 21 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
keep I thought at first "yeah, let's get rid of this" but then I looked at the list... it's a fine example of how lists should be used in Wikipedia. As to the assertion that there are items on the list that should not belong--maybe yes, maybe no... but that's not an AfD discussion, that's a content discussion.--Paul McDonald (talk) 20:16, 21 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Article still needs more cleanup, but as currently constituted, it is suitable according to WP:LIST. The Jerry Rice article became too bloated with it. For certain athletes (Kobe Bryant is another example), separate articles are necessary for their myriad accomplishments and records. Rice is one of the greatest players in NFL history. Enigma^msg 06:01, 22 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Yes it definetely needs cleanup but is useful for people researching Jerry Rice's numerous records.--Iamawesome800 Talk to Me 20:21, 22 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- WP:USEFUL Secret ^account 22:19, 22 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Delete original research, also rather reduntlant trivia. Yes Rice broke many records, but many of these aren't notable records or records caused by his longitivty. The only records worth mentioning is the career records, and maybe a few of the touchdown records, and that could be fit in the Rice article easily. Some of the records listed for example "Touchdown receptions made in one state(California, 115) " are clear made-up and extremely reduntlant original research, and it seems like it was written just to find a record we can add in these stats. If Rice owns the record for most receptions, and played his entire career in California, isn't that obvious. Many of these "records" has these problems. For many of the people who said that AFD isn't cleanup therefore keep, I looked though this article, and it's unsalvageable, which is a reason for deletion. Secret ^account 22:16, 22 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.