Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of Christmas hit singles

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. (non-admin closure) CTJF83 chat 17:06, 5 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

List of Christmas hit singles[edit]

List of Christmas hit singles (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log) • Afd statistics
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Indiscriminate list, no qualification for "hit". WP:IINFO, WP:SALAT. We've got everything from Top 40 Hot 100 hits, Top 40 country hits, Top 20 UK singles to obscure one-offs by non-notable acts. My main concern is that there's no qualification for what a "hit" is, and the list seems to be trying to include every Christmas song ever. Ten Pound Hammer, his otters and a clue-bat • (Otters want attention) 21:33, 28 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

  • Keep This list is a valuable source of information about Christmas songs that have charted, with links to those songs that have their own articles, and those that have been released by more than one artist. Perhaps the title needs to be more specific, or there should be more criteria in the intro of the article for what constitutes a "hit", but it should not be deleted. Fortdj33 (talk) 14:07, 29 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • A "hit" is something that makes it onto the hit parade, surely? Uncle G (talk) 16:05, 29 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Fix and keep: Define hit (say, Top 40 anywhere by one artist or Top 100 by multiple artists), and keep the article Purplebackpack89 21:49, 29 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]
While we're thinking about definition we should also define "Christmas song". Phil Bridger (talk) 22:04, 29 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep I echo the comments made by the other users, especially Fortdj33. This list is an extremely valuable source of information about Christmas/holiday songs that have attained some level of popularity either in the UK or the US in the past. I agree that article could be improved. Its current size is too large for the entire list to be contained in a single article. The title could be either more or less specific, and reflect songs that were deemed "popular" at some time or another (note: not all songs that have attained significant radio airplay were chart hits). Maybe change the title of the article by removing the word 'hit'; one possible suggestion I have is "List of popular Christmas/holiday songs". Nevertheless, I am strongly against deleting this article. More than likely, there is NO reference on the Internet like it in existence. Also, "fixing the damn thing" (as user TenPoundHammer suggests) will require much time and effort. It won't be a quick task, since there's a large number of entries in the table, and especially since consensus should first be reached by the article's more frequent users/contributors as to how it should be fixed before any significant changes are made. --Sliv812 (talk) 06:38, 1 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • So fix the damn thing, don't pass it off to someone else. They'll only pass it off to someone else, and we'll just go around in circles without getting anything done. Ten Pound Hammer, his otters and a clue-bat • (Otters want attention) 23:05, 29 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Do you approve of my definition? Purplebackpack89 00:29, 1 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]
That works. Trim it just to Top 40 by one artist, etc. etc. Ten Pound Hammer, his otters and a clue-bat • (Otters want attention) 05:19, 1 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Not all popular Christmas songs made the top 40 in their day ("It's the Most Wonderful Time of the Year" by Andy Williams is a perfect example; "Christmas Wrapping" by the Waitresses is another). If we trim it to one artist per song, which artist gets designated? The artist that is known to have first recorded the song (whether it was popular or not), or the artist to first have a chart hit on any of Billboard's music charts with the song? Do all songs that only charted in the UK get excluded/removed (if that's the case, "Peace on Earth/Little Drummer Boy" by David Bowie & Bing Crosby will need to be deleted, as it only charted in the UK)? Also, do popular cover versions of songs continue to get an honorable mention in the Additional Information column of the table? All these issues need to be sorted out by the discussion group. --Sliv812 (talk) 06:48, 1 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • And now we get into obfuscating what a "hit" is. How do we know that a song is a "hit" without some sort of definitive criterion? If the article were "List of Christmas songs that made the Top 40", then we'd have a clear criterion for inclusion. This is just "Christmas songs by popular artists" with no real criterion for inclusion. I wouldn't call "Christmas Wrapping" a hit, for instance, but you apparently do. See what we're getting into here? There needs to be a clear criterion for what should be on this list if it's to be kept. Ten Pound Hammer, his otters and a clue-bat • (Otters want attention) 13:00, 1 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • My take on the article in general, is that the "Artist(s)/Year" column should be for the first artist to release the song as a single, regardless of how it charted. Anyone else who released the song, can be listed in the "Additional Information" column. There are other songs in the List of Christmas hit singles article, where other artists are better known for having recorded the song (such as "Auld Lang Syne" and "Jingle Bells"), but I think that the article is more accurate the way that it is. And any discussion regarding criteria for the article, would be better suited on that article's talk page. Fortdj33 (talk) 19:08, 1 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Between 1963 and 1973 (and then again between 1983 and 1985), Billboard magazine published special weekly Christmas Singles sales charts from late November/early December to late December/early January during those years. Many of these songs never hit the top 40 portion of the Billboard Hot 100 singles chart, yet they still charted on a special Christmas-related singles chart. Do we exclude these songs too? Also, what about songs that charted in the top 40 portion of other singles charts that Billboard published (for example, the Billboard Country Singles chart, the Billboard Adult Contemporary chart, or the Billboard R&B/Soul Singles chart), but may not have hit the top 40 portion of the Hot 100 singles chart. Do these get excluded too? Limiting the article to only "top 40" songs isn't as cut-and-dry as it seems. Sure we could only include songs that hit the top 40 portion of the Billboard Hot 100 singles chart, and if that was done, the size of the article would be much smaller. But it would also be a lot less useful as well. I can easily cite Joel Whitburn's excellent 2004 reference book Christmas in the Charts (1920-2004), which provides abundant stats on all Christmas season-related albums and singles that charted on any of Billboard's published record charts during those years (not only the Hot 100 chart), regardless of peak chart position. --Sliv812 (talk) 19:44, 1 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I like the idea of including any song that reached Top 40 of any type of Billboard Chart (Country, Adult Contemporary, etc.) --Mjrmtg (talk) 20:33, 1 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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