Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Lisa Nakazono

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete‎. Well, some COI editing has certainly muddied the water a fair bit here, but of course COI is not in and of itself a reason to delete. That said, the clear consensus among non-COI editors is that the amount of reference material is not sufficient to sustain this article. Seraphimblade Talk to me 03:23, 14 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Lisa Nakazono[edit]

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Lisa Nakazono (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log | edits since nomination)
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General notability is unclear, and the page has been plagued by POV fancruft since its inception. Unless a properly sourced biography can be put together (for example, she was married, and went by the name Nakazono Węgłowska for some period), I think the page would be better deleted. Imaginatorium (talk) 08:03, 6 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  • Delete not finding much from a BEFORE but I expect most good sources will be in Japanese if they exist. Lack of even trivial coverage from english-speaking outlets makes me think it is unlikely that GNG is met. I would also like to confirm that I have read the below discussion as of September 11 and disapprove of the bludgeoning. I believe the sheer quantity of WP:ROUTINE mentions of her name being drudged up without any high quality in-depth coverage affirms the lack of notability. I would also clarify that I've read the arguments regarding her being signed by Sony and am unconvinced. She is signed by Aniplex who is a subsidiary of Sony Music Entertainment Japan who is a subsidiary of Sony themselves. Importantly, she is NOT signed by a child label of Sony Music which would pass WP:MUSICBIO - Aniplex bypasses that as it is not actually owned by a bigger parent record label, just the Japanese entertainment division itself. There's a lot of noise here, but all votes aside from those with a COI have voted delete so far.
I urge the reviewer to not mistake WP:BLUDGEONING for a balanced discussion. BrigadierG (talk) 10:16, 6 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
1. I bought her CDs in Japan. It says her 2nd album was recorded at Sony Music Studio over four days from November 24th to 27th, 2009.
2. Sony Music runs her official web site.
https://www.sonymusic.co.jp/artist/lisanakazono/
It says Copyright 2021 Sony Music Entertainment (Japan) Inc. All rights reserved. Copyright 2021 Sony Music Marketing United Inc. All rights reserved.
Therefore, this her web site is owned by Sony Music.
3. Aniplex is a child label of Sony Music.
Sony Music treats Aniplex is their child label on the official web site.
[1]https://www.sme.co.jp/en/pressrelease/news/
[2]https://www.sme.co.jp/en/company/groupcompanies/
4. Aniplex, Inc. (株式会社アニプレックス, Kabushiki-gaisha Anipurekkusu) is a 100% owned subsidiary of Sony Music. Also, Aniplex is a company within the Sony Music Group that plans and produces video works, mainly animation.
The reason why Ms. Nakazono released her CD on the Aniplex label is that the title of the CD, "Chopin de GHIBLI" is a fusion of classical music and animation, GHIBLI. (CD says GHBLI in Chopin Style Arrangement).
Therefore, the content of her CD is classical music mainly based on GHIBLI animation, and it was published by the Aniplex label.
5. The product numbers of her two CDs are "SVWC-7615" and "SVWC-7672", and they are definitely sold by Sony Music Distribution Inc. Sanobunji (talk) 16:45, 12 September 2023 (UTC)— Sanobunji (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]
  • [Comment from IP] This page should not deleted by unreasonable complaints. Please do not say something based on your speculation.
(IP user accuses Imaginatorium above of having incorrectly given the hyphenated "Nakazono-Węgłowska" as official name) --Summary & collapse by Kiyoweap (talk) 15:01, 10 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Extended content (repeated from talk)
:1. When we edited her name correctly, the photo of 2017, @Imaginatoriumsaid "It appears that tis was her name in 2017. This is not a promotion page." It's absolutely wrong. Her name was already Lisa Nakazono.
Here is an evidence.
https://www.pccij.or.jp/polish-festival-roppongi-hills-2017/
She was called Lisa Nakazono in 2017.
2. When we explained about the photo which was used this page before, @Imaginatorium said the photo was taken in Poland but it is wrong. The photo was taken in Tokyo, Japan
This was the Polish festival held in Roppongi Hills O-YANE PLAZA, Tokyo, Japan.
Here is an evidence.
https://www.pccij.or.jp/polish_festival_2016_en/
https://www.pccij.or.jp/polish-festival-roppongi-hills-2017/
Please do not say something based on your speculation.

--2001:268:C2D1:B31:24EF:9A06:FA9B:509C (talk) 10:37, 6 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

None of this is relevant here. Your response here should be to show why this article is notable in line with WP:GNG or WP:MUSICBIO by showing significant coverage in reliable secondary sources sources. BrigadierG (talk) 12:20, 6 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I don't see anything wrong on the page. I think the reliable sources are on the page. 2001:268:C2D1:B31:8431:8AD4:472C:7033 (talk) 14:28, 6 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Lisa, you can't use your own page as a "reliable source". Most "sources" on your page just link to your personal promotion webpage. English Wikipedia needs substantial articles (can be in Japanese) to establish you are notable and not just a local artist that has no real notability. There are no news articles talking about your life story or anything. Even searching google news in Japanese and excluding links to Wikipedia, there are only 2 very non-notable list blogs that seem to mention anything about you; and only your name with no details. I'm honestly looking to try to find substantial sources (other than your personal site) to fill out the biography with reliable information, but so far I haven't found anything. Nesnad (talk) 10:44, 7 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I am NOT Lisa, I am her friend and also one of her fans. 2001:268:C2C0:414A:D4E2:D2F7:F198:A5ED (talk) 16:13, 7 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Delete I can only find hits in Japanese about pianos, nothing for this person. Oaktree b (talk) 15:58, 6 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The Wikipedia page describing Lisa Nakazono's musical career is genuine and does not contain any irrelevant information or advertisements. I am of the opinion that this page best summarizes who she is and her musical career. As a huge fan of Lisa, all I can say is that she is just taking a short break from her music (due in part to the Covid-19 pandemic), and she will be back in the future. Thus, I hope this page will remain as it is so that when she returns, every fan of hers will be able to remember her more easily. Lisa is a great musician. Daniel Limster (talk) 04:16, 7 September 2023 (UTC)— Daniel Limster (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]
I completely agree with you. 2001:268:C2C9:1865:49E2:21C2:F937:6657 (talk) 09:38, 7 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Although there seems to be a troubling use of sockpuppet accounts or friends or something to falsely prop up the page, I can attest to Lisa Nakazono being a real musician. She has indeed released some music with Sony EDIT correction: with the label know as Aniplex or something and has been in a few local festivals. If that's enough, the page should stay. I am not one to decide if that is notable enough or not for Wikipedia, although maybe I can try to find more sources to find out if she is or not. So far there doesn't seem to be a lot of notable sources to establish much about her. I do think that all the IP users and new accounts made to justify her page, and try to shape her Wiki page etc, are a bit troubling. If she is notable enough, she should let the page organically grow from tangible sources about her past and present instead of personally trying to get involved with shaping things to this extent. Wikipedia isn't for personal promotion. Nesnad (talk) 10:21, 7 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    I don't know about her friends, but as an avid music lover, I frequently look up my favorite musicians like Sumini Hayato or Yukie Nishimura on the Internet to see if there's anything new about them. And Lisa has always been on the list. I am not comparing anybody and I believe doing so is considered to be what's similar to blasphemy in the musical arena as a musician's talent is rather a subjective issue and is to be judged by the listeners.
    For whatever reason, I am so fond of her music and listen to her music whenever time allows me to. You cannot and should not accuse someone else's comments of what's written in her defense. That's not what this website is all about.
    BTW, I don't think Chopin or Tchaikovsky is not producing any 'tangible' performances any longer, but how come their pages have not been deleted yet? Or should we delete those pages since they are falsely using Wikipedia for their 'promotions'? Daniel Limster (talk) 12:21, 7 September 2023 (UTC)— Daniel Limster (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]


Off-topic comments moved from top of page

Extended content
*Note (from proposer Imaginatorium)

These comments were in the wrong place, messing up formatting here for example, and actually have nothing to do with the discussion on this page, which is about reasons to delete or not delete, based on Wikipedia principles, not fan passion. Does anyone object if I move all of these to the Talk page (Talk:Lisa Nakazono) of the article? Imaginatorium (talk) 15:00, 7 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]


I honestly don't see anything wrong with this profile picture being used on the page. The original copyright owner has done it correctly by relinquish the rights to the picture and got it approved on Wikicommons. Furthermore, it is the agreement from the artist herself. The name Lisa Nakazono is used during that Polish Festival in Japan and not Lisa Nakazono Wengloaska and there are many sources from that event to proof that fact. — Preceding unsigned comment added by HayashiMichiKimi (talk • contribs) 12:03, 6 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I totally agree. I don't see anything wrong there. 2001:268:C2D1:B31:8431:8AD4:472C:7033 (talk) 14:30, 6 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The photo is fine, the article will likely be deleted unless we can find proper sourcing. Oaktree b (talk) 15:59, 6 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete. I looked at the Japanese Wikipedia article (ja:中園理沙) using Google Translate[3] and didn't see any references I thought established notability. She certainly seems like she should be notable but should isn't enough. She's been on many broadcasts.
I encourage others who know the Japanese music scene to look at her Japanese Wikipedia article in case I missed something.
--A. B. (talk • contribs • global count) 17:44, 7 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Note: While I was invited here by a note on my talk page, I am unable to comment on the substance of this issue because I am currently topic banned from BLPs. Stuartyeates (talk) 01:19, 8 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Dear Ms. Nakazono and/or her friends visiting this discussion:
We have rules that govern article retention. In particular, refer to the detailed information in these guidelines: WP:BIO, WP:RS, and WP:COI.
WP:COI: Ms. Nakazono and those associated with her are not allowed to edit her biography. This is to protect Wikipedia's integrity against self-interested editing.
WP:BIO: The article has to demonstrate that Ms. Nakazono is notable as defined by WP:BIO above; you may disagree with those notability criteria but they're the rules of this website.
WP:RS: Any claims this article makes about Ms. Nakazono have to be backed up with citations to references that meet the WP:RS guideline.
Presently, this article does not meet our notability requirements based on the references in the article.
I'm sure Ms. Nakazono is a very good musician. If it's any consolation, most of the world's very good musicians aren't notable by our rules. They have not gotten the substantial, in-depth coverage required.
Ultimately, notability on Wikipedia is more about vagaries of media coverage by reliable sources than merit. We're an encyclopaedia diligently compiled by a group of amateur volunteers. We're compiling information from around the world for our articles; we're not forming or imposing our own opinions.
I'm sorry I have to tell you and your supporters this; I sense this will come as a disappointment. Please don't take it personally - this is just a really big website, and we're not Japanese music industry experts.
—A. B. (talk • contribs • global count) 01:44, 8 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Dear @A. B. I am truly sorry, I made a typo. 2001:268:C2C0:414A:F024:CB30:202F:9C61 (talk) 02:56, 8 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Wow. I wish I had a friend like you! I don’t know if those performances count towards notability. Perhaps they would if our rules were different. Her record is impressive. Our rules lean on what others say about her in reliable sources as defined in WP:RS.
—A. B. (talk • contribs • global count)< A. B. (talk • contribs • global count) 03:02, 8 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you so much dear @A. B..
I sincerely appreciate your kindness, understanding, and support.
Please let me know what I can do more.
Thank you so much again. 2001:268:C2C0:414A:F024:CB30:202F:9C61 (talk) 03:07, 8 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Dear @A. B.,
Thank you so much for your sincere message.
I understand and truly appreciate you told me that.
Please let me explain to you.
Yes, I am her friend and one of her fans. This is true. Actually, Ms. Nakazono didn't edit anything on the article and this page. She has little two kids and she is too busy to check all here and do something here.
I, her friends and fans who love her have been trying to edit the pages and protect her from some problems.
As for me, What I am doing this of oy own will. She didn't ask me to do this.
Pleaae let me show the proof of her notability here.
In June 2013, she was invited to perform a concert in the Republic of Poland.
http://chopinfestiwal.wilkomirski.org.pl/?grp=205&dzial=195
︎In 2015, she was appointed cultural director of the Czech Chamber of Commerce in Japan, and she is committed to international cultural exchange.
https://dukesoftware.appspot.com/pianist/Lisa_Nakazono/
︎In April 2016, she gave a concert with a singer at the Embassy of the Czech Republic in Tokyo.
https://www.cccij.com/inpage/news-2016-03-28/
︎In August 2017, she gave a piano recital in Prague, Czech Republic.
https://kazelfacorp.com/culture/lisanakazono2017/
︎In May 2018, she gave a piano recital in Beijing, China and served as a master class teacher.
https://www.sohu.com/a/231352444_410931
︎In August 2019, she served as a judge for the Excellence Cup International Music Competition in Taiwan.
https://www.music-taiwan.com/zh-tw/piano/introduction/reviewers/past
Please let me know if there is something I need to do. 2001:268:C2C0:414A:F024:CB30:202F:9C61 (talk) 02:57, 8 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
It turns out we have additional rules for musicians that provide alternate ways to establish notability. I’m sorry I overlooked this earlier. See WP:MUSICBIO - perhaps one of these fits? In particular, has she made two or more albums with Sony Music?
Note: I’m signing off in a few minutes and will return tomorrow.
—A. B. (talk • contribs • global count) 03:12, 8 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Dear @A. B.
Thank you so much.
Yes, she made Two albums with Sony Music.
Her discography on Sony Music.
https://www.sonymusic.co.jp/artist/lisanakazono/discography/
Thank you so much. 2001:268:C2C0:414A:F024:CB30:202F:9C61 (talk) 03:37, 8 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Lisa et al, I can't find any Google news hits for you when searching your name in Japanese. Nothing. Two references on blogs in 2010, but they simply mention your name that is all. I'm really honestly trying. I think you are a great musician, but skill is not notability on English Wikipedia. I lean toward inclusion when we can, but none of those links establish Wikipedia notability maybe, and for sure wouldn't work as sources for biographical data. (Further the kazelfacorp link posts some of the same photos that you claimed were family photos on Wikimedia commons. So is it run by your family or was that a false claim on Wikimedia commons?) Do you have any (non-blog) newspaper/magazine interviews that go into details about your life and history to work as a source? That'd be quite helpful, Nesnad (talk) 03:22, 8 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep - notable per WP:MUSICBIO - 2 albums with a major record label per above.
--A. B. (talk • contribs • global count) 03:39, 8 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I have stricken my “keep” per the running argument below.
—A. B. (talk • contribs • global count) 12:52, 10 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Stop droning on and on about the label. If a CD is put out under the "Aniplex" label owned by Sony Music Entertainment then it should be considered major enough, period.
Also NMUSIC Criterion #1 is actually probably satisifed also, since she has been covered in multiple trade mags and newspaper[s] as listed on her website,[11]
I don't reside in Japan (so no easy access to back issue material), but I've vetted the existence of a piece in Chopin monthly[12] and pieces in Piano monthly. [13] Also the interview with the Piano mag had led to her obtaining her debut CD gig, according to a piece in H!P magazine issued by the Kanagawa Shimbun Company[14]
Nesnad's Google news search is a far, far cry from a catch-all of Japanese media coverage. The result set from that tool being nil does not prove nonexistence. According to the artist several pieces about her, her CD, or her recital appeared in Kanagawa Shimbun newspaper.--Kiyoweap (talk) 08:09, 8 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you so much for your support dear @Kiyoweap.
I can't thank you enough. 2001:268:C2C0:414A:D8AF:C175:C038:9BDB (talk) 08:30, 8 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Hi, like I said... If Anipex counts for notability, then I have no problem. I just think saying she is on Sony Music is factually wrong. If a name mention in a trade industry journal is enough to establish notability, I'm all ok. I am an inclusionist. I like to keep material. I just wasn't sure if some random minor label with no google hits was enough for notability. I am fine if it is, it just feels a bit like a stretch so I was just worried, that's all. Nesnad (talk) 09:16, 8 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Nesnad is not a genuine inclusionist if he keeps twisting facts so that the conditions for meeting MUSICBIO appears less than satisfied. and that coverage amounts to "name mention"s.
His saying she is on Sony Music is factually wrong is disinformation AFAIC, and bizarre.
The Aniplex label is Sony-owned.
Sony Music website still carries her profile as artist including concert updates to 2010[15] and media coverage to 2008[16] for additional indication she was no stranger but a Sony signee and affiliate.
Nesnad Nakazono's website presumed to know that Most "sources" on your page just link to your personal promotion webpage" but in fact je overlooked Nakazono's weblist of useable magazine and newspaper sourcing,[17]
Now he wants to minimize his oversight as being mere "name mention"s. But this is contrary to fact.
The "Micchaku repo 密着レポートPart3" piece means that the Chopin monthly magazine ran a 3-part profile of her, engaging in something akin to embedded reporting staying close by her nearly around the clock.
Such pieces must be assumed to be non-trivial and meeting the MUSICBIO criterion.--Kiyoweap (talk) 20:06, 8 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I sincerely appreciate your help.
Please let me convey the source of this passage below in the article,
Her concert tour "Fantastic Chopin 2010" that year commemorated the 200th anniversary of the birth of Chopin."
Here is the link.
https://www.sonymusic.co.jp/artist/lisanakazono/info/345572
Thank you so much again. 2001:268:C2CB:453F:70E8:9086:89B:E757 (talk) 01:46, 9 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Lisa et al, let me reiterate that there is no personal malice felt toward you. I wish you all the best. That said, there seems to be a misunderstanding on how sources work. A list of concerts only works as a source for the fact she had a tour. Without an interview or something it would be original research to say that the purpose was to commemorate the 200th anniversary of the birth of Chopin etc. It does work to confirm she was on tour though, that's great. Do you have any interviews with her in reputable magazines/newspapers we could use? Nesnad (talk) 02:48, 9 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I feel a little personally attacked? Do we say all subsidiaries are signed by the parent company? Seems odd to me. Do we say because HMV listed her she is signed with HMV, too? I could find many artists in the Chopin (a very minor trade magazine) magazine that have no articles on English Wikipedia. Let me reiterate, I have no problem with Ms. Nakazono being listed or not on Wikipedia. I am not fighting against her inclusion. But I also want to be realistic, and making fake claims about her levels of fame just seems silly. You seem to have positioned yourself as her defender, so go for it, but I am neither attacking nor defending her. I am just pointing to the fact that her record is not produced by Sony Music and her articles (and the one you mention was written by herself, right?) are not in a major publication. That level of fame I have personally achieved too, and yet I do not have (nor want!) a Wikipedia page, that's the only reason I hesitate to think she is notable enough. But once again, I have no problem if she is fairly decided to be notable enough for Wikipedia. Anyway, the notability is for level-headed Wikipedians to fairly decide. Nesnad (talk) 02:34, 9 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Please stop making statements based on your subjectivity, speculation, and preconceptions. I am a close friend of her, but at the same time, I as someone who has watched the Japanese classical music industry for a very long time, The music magazine Chopin is not a minor magazine. It is one of the major, popular and historical Japanese classical music magazines. There is probably no professor at a music university in Japan who doesn't know about this magazine. This magazine has interviewed not only many major artists in Japan, but also many top international artists, And they have been featured on the magazine's cover and in interviews many times. It would be desrespectful to underestimate this magazine as being minor based on your own subjectivity and preconceptions, and to make disrespectful comments about her who was interviewed closely three times by this magazine. And you said "and you write her articles (and the one you mention was written by herself, right?) are not in a major publication." is wrong. She did not write by herself, but the magazine itself clearly wrote that it had closely interviewed Lisa Nakazono. And there were three close interviews with her.
Here is the proof.
https://www.chopin.co.jp/media/chopin_backnumber/a723
https://www.chopin.co.jp/media/chopin_backnumber/a722
https://www.fujisan.co.jp/product/1251/b/237105/
Therefore, saying things based on your speculation is disrespectful to the person who made that statement. 2001:268:C2CB:453F:BD38:E84C:7C12:A22E (talk) 08:07, 9 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Please don't be so aggressive. I just got mixed up I guess. She wrote one of those articles linked, right? Maybe the piano monthly one? But anycase, my point is it is an industry article written in 2010 or something. I don't mean it as negative on Ms. Nakazono. For example, in the top link you sent there is an article about an artist way more famous in Japan (being on NHK etc) that have no English Wikipedia page. I think notability isn't just trying to force yourself onto English Wikipedia. But like I've said many times, I have no problem with her keeping her page. I am just trying to make things realistic and at the same time I keep repeating my request for sources like magazines/newspapers to use in her article as sources for the content that currently exists and instead I keep getting "holier than thou" arguments about her being famous, when she is not. Once again, I don't care if she has or doesn't have an English Wikipedia page. I am not fighting against her having one. I just want to have sources for claims in the article. Those sources will help the argument for notability, and regardless would help the article in general. Nesnad (talk) 12:02, 9 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Those sources (links) are actually reputable and very well known in Japan. It is like the Hall of Fame for artists in who have made great achievements in their career. Just like we have the Grammy Awards in the U.S, they have their Japanese equipment in their country. HayashiMichiKimi (talk) 15:40, 9 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I meant to say equivalent, not equipment, sorry! HayashiMichiKimi (talk) 15:42, 9 September 2023 (UTC)— HayashiMichiKimi (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]
What are you going on about? Are you trying to claim Ms. Nakazono has won a Japanese Grammy Award? Or you just mean in a magazine that covered the Grammy Awards? What awards are you talking about and how does it have to do with anything? You do realize not everyone is from the United States, so no need to talk to us like we don't know Japan as if you are the expert and we know nothing about Japan. Also! I've asked you several times and you have ignored me, but I'm asking for sources to support claims in her article and you keep trying to claim she is super famous, when she isn't. Maybe she is notable enough for an article, maybe she isn't. That's not what I'm asking for. Are you reading my messages? I'm asking for links to newspaper or magazine articles interviewing her about her life or any other things we can use as reputable sources in the English Wikipedia article. Because even if she is deemed notable, currently almost everything in the article is not from reliable sources required on English Wikipedia. Cheers, Nesnad (talk) 16:15, 9 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I investigated whether Lisa Nakazono is indeed registered with Sony Music. And I confirmed that she is indeed registered with Sony Music. This link is the Official Sony Music website, and from here you will find a list of all artist names registered with Sony Music.
Please have a look at the link below and click "50音からさがす"(Searching from fifty Japanese syllables) → click "ナ"(Na)　
https://www.sonymusic.co.jp/artistlist/
I searched for her name 中園理沙 and she is indeed listed here.
If anyone still objects, I will ask Sony Music directly on the phone to make it sure.
As a side note, Aniplex is a 100% owned subsidiary of Sony Music. The reason why she released her CD on the Aniplex label is that the title of the CD, "Chopin de GHIBLI" is a fusion of classical music and animation, GHIBLI. (CD says GHBLI in Chopin Style Arrangement).
Aniplex is a company within the Sony Music Group that plans and produces video works, mainly animation. Therefore, the content of her CD is classical music mainly based on GHIBLI animation, and it was published by the Aniplex label. Also, the product numbers of her two CDs are "SVWC-7615" and "SVWC-7672", and they are definitely sold by Sony Music Distribution Inc. Sanobunji (talk) 01:13, 10 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
So because I can find her on the HMV site that shows she is sold by HMV too, so does that mean she is "registered" by HMV, too? Aniplex is a subsidiary company, it isn't fair to say she is on the Sony Music label, when she isn't. Maybe Aniplex is enough to be notable, maybe it isn't. Keep in mind though, that a subsidiary is NOT the same as the parent company. Don't try to inflate Ms. Nakazono into something she is not. If she is notable that should be enough, no need to try to make her into a fake "something" in order to justify a page or something. Nesnad (talk) 05:16, 10 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Please stop casting aspersions. See WP:ASPERSION. People are actively trying to sort out Ms. Nakazono's notability - don't antagonize them. It's counterproductive and not very nice.
--A. B. (talk • contribs • global count) 20:12, 8 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Please let me express my gratitude again. 2001:268:C2CB:453F:70E8:9086:89B:E757 (talk) 02:01, 9 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Perhaps User:HayashiMichiKimi's analogy to a Hall of Fame or the Grammy was inflated. But this beside the point. WP:MUSICBIO criterion #1 for media coverage does not demand that Piano or Chopin magazine appearances have prestige tantamount to a Grammy nomination.
Stop egging her on as if she's obliged to demonstrate these mags to be super-duper major, because its pointless and a waste of time.
The award Nakazono won was the "1st Elena Richter [International Piano] Competition" in 2008, held by the Tokyo International Association of Artists.[18] probably only borrowing the name of instructor Elena Richter at Moscow Conservatory.[19] Not Grammy-like status, so not relevant to criterion #8 based on award.
Again, Nesnad's sense of what's "realistic" is out of touch with reality.
He was given links to back issues[20][21][22] that lists content, enough to confirm such articles as "Nakazono Risa: Close [surveillance reportage] until her CD debut 中園理沙 CDデビューまでに密着！" have been published to establish notability for the purpose of discussion right now.
It is not realistic for him to demand links providing him access to copyright content from these back issues during the session of this discussion. People aren't going to hustle and haul their asses to purchase or subscribe and type out or upload scans for your benefit.
Also, I've already inserted a freemag I've found online called H!P magazine[23] issued by Kanagawa Shimbun Company into the Nakazono wikipage, which serves as verifiable source on a number of points.--Kiyoweap (talk) 20:14, 9 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Kiyoweap, do you have a conflict of interest? You seem to be very dedicated to defending Ms. Nakazono which seems like her other sockpuppets. Not saying you are! I am just curious, please confirm you have no conflict of interest. If you do, please inform us to be fair. At least the other users have confirmed they have a conflict of interest. I am not saying you do, just want to confirm if you do or don't. If you read my comments, I am NOT saying she is not notable or is notable. I am not trying to "fight against her" or something. I am just asking for newspapers/magazines which help to add sources to the article. I am trying to boost the article if possible, and you are acting like I am fighting against Ms. Nakazono's page. I am just being realistic. Part of which is pointing out just because she was in a minor magazine in 2009 doesn't automatically make her notable. If you notice the person in the exact same section (米山優香) on the page next to Ms. Nakazono doesn't even have a Japanese Wikipedia page, nor of course an English one. Just being in a minor magazine doesn't automatically make you notable. I'm not saying Ms. Nakazono isn't or is! I'm just saying that claiming she is a Grammy award winner (is not) or that she is on the Sony Music label (is not) and other things just work to inflate something that isn't true. If she is notable, fine, but don't try to make her into something she is not. Nesnad (talk) 05:10, 10 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I believe that what you are doing is slander against user Kiyoweap, I feel Kiyoweap just wants to try to be logical, sincere, and sort out her notability. Also, that it is a slander against other users here to call them (who said they are Ms. Nakazono's friends and fans) her sock puppets, a terribly rude, childish & condescending term. I also believe that what you are doing is slandering Ms. Nakazono.
I read people's messages here, they just simply said they are Ms. Nakazono's friends or fans to convey the facts and proof such as links & sources'.
No one here has a conflict of interest.
Also, I have read everything you have said here, and it seems that you are intentionally trying to make all of Ms. Nakazono's images appear negative. And even when people show some information (links) that does not meet your wishes, you completely keep ignoring them.
For example, you continue to baselessly write about the magazines in which she appeared, the concerts she appeared in, all of which are very minor and small, and you intentionally try to instill a negative image of her in people's minds.
And you said that because the name of the person listed next to Ms. Nakazono is not famous, Ms. Nakazono is not worthy of notability either. I can not follow your line of logic. However, let's apply your logic here. In the Sendai Classical Festival article where she is listed　https://sendai.keizai.biz/headline/1466/, next to Ms. Nakazono there is the name of a famous harpsichordist named Ms. Mayako Sone 曽根麻矢子, and she is listed on Wikipedia. (Japanese version and French version)
Also, at the 2017 Matsumoto Piano Festival, where she performed, the world-famous pianist Ingrid Fuzjko Hemming was featured in the exact same section where Ms. Nakazono's photo was posted. https://naganoart-plus.net/?p=6733
So, according to your logic, Ms. Nakazono is famous because there is a famous person listed next to her or in the exact same section. Is this correct? Sanobunji (talk) 09:49, 10 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
But you are one of the ones that feels like a sockpuppet. I'm not saying you are, but all of her "supporters" are only focused on her and attack anyone who disagrees, I'm honestly a bit frustrated by that. That feels like (not claiming it is that way I have no way to know, just saying it feels like) classic sockpuppet behavior. Why is it slander to say Ms. Nakazono isn't famous? She isn't. I'm not asking for newspapers and magazines to look down on her, I'm asking so that I can add information to the article that doesn't read like an advertisement, but I can't add content with out reliable sources. Tokyo has many people that are in minor magazines that have no Wikipedia article. That's a fact. I'm not saying she doesn't desereve it or she does, but the fact that all you new users pop up with the same kind of "oh she's so famous blah blah" logic makes me feel like you are either her friends with a conflict of interest or you are simply her. It just feels weird. So Lisa et al, please calm down. You aren't super famous, but that's not a bad thing. Don't inflate yourself to be more than you are (for example you aren't famous just because you performed at a festival with a famous person) and just try to logically look at the way things are. Cheers, Nesnad (talk) 11:48, 10 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Everything what you said above is just a speculation based on your prejudice.
I am just an elderly man who loves music and works in the financial sector.
I agree you are free to think Ms. Nakazono is not famous. However, you don't have right to say anything without proof such as "You aren't super famous. Don't inflate yourself to be more than you are."
Did Ms. Nakazono say that she is a super famous? Or some people who said that here? Where is the proof?
I can not find that statement anywhere.
What you are saying above is an abusive attack on Ms. Nakazono's character. 2001:268:C2C4:66A:ADB5:C912:E245:8860 (talk) 14:28, 10 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
It is me who left the comment above, and I forgot to log in. I am new to here.
Okay, you assume that I am her freind with a conflict of interest or her.
Actually, I am her fan. My daughter is her close friend. I do not need to hide anything here. I came here from my daughter, because she feels so scared you attacked her and Ms. Nakazono relentlessly so many times here. I thought I should be in front of my daughter and Ms. Nakazono.
Also, it seems like you want Ms. Nakazono to read your message to damage her badly, but she lives in her husband's home country which can not access Wikipedia, Google, Facebook, etc. I am SO GLAD that Ms. Nakazono can not access this page, Sanobunji (talk) 15:25, 10 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
No, actually no need to hear from Ms. Nakazono. The less bias the better. I just felt a lot of bias so it felt like you were maybe her. Please don't let your feelings for your friend cloud your judgement. Wikipedia articles need a neutral point of view. Discussing if she is notable or not is not an attack on her. Calm down, not worth being so upset about. English Wikipedia just needs clear reputable sources and has notability requirements. That's all we are discussing. It does not help when users come in here and claim that she has the equivalent of a Grammy award or performed at Japan's biggest music festival and other weird untrue things. Just the facts, if she is notable enough I'm happy. I like to include things. But I am also a realist. Lets stay realistic. Thanks, Nesnad (talk) 06:09, 11 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I am not here to play mind game with you. Sanobunji (talk) 08:04, 11 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
You told me that we need a neutral discussion here. I deeply agree. So I would like to say the same words to you. You should stop your negative biases against her, twisting the logic, and baseless slander.
No one said she performed at Japanese "biggest" music festival here.
People just said 仙台クラシックフェスティバルSendai Music festival she performed is ONE OF THE biggest CLASSICAL MUSIC festival in Japan". That's not wrong. Sanobunji (talk) 08:43, 11 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I quote from above: "It is one of the biggest and famous music festival in Japan." Yes, I was told that, not some negative bias or whatever aggressive feelings you want to put on me. Please don't twist the facts. I'm glad she had a chance to perform at Sendai Music Festival, that can be one thing Wikipedians can consider when deciding if she is notable or not. I don't think just playing music at a 30,000ish person festival guarantees notability on English Wikipedia but that's a fair thing to mention! So as long as we stay realistic, I have no problem. Nesnad (talk) 09:06, 11 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
User Nesnad still keeps casting aspersions on people. Please stop it.Sanobunji (talk) 08:11, 10 September 2023 (UTC)— Sanobunji (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]

Nesnad is just far too busy trying to establish other people as "sockpuppets" (probably meant WP:MEATPUPPETs), as he has now accused me of being.

If I were such a crony of the artist that her wiki page was all-important, I would clearly pay a few bucks out of my own pocket to purchase those back issues and fortify the sourcing. There is really no chance of me doing this, but if someone in Japan got access to the micchaku close-reporting profiles on Piano or Chopin magazine issues [or the interview on Piano monthly] and edited the Japanese wiki, I might be persuaded to translate.
I am neither friend nor fan of the artist. In fact, I had completely forgotten who this Lisa Nakazono was, but was alerted to the discussion bcz I had edited the page back in 2014, acting on PNT request (here, under "Lisa Nakazono-Węgłowska").
Nesnad wants to cast innuendos about my associations, but actually, he's the one who just keeps wasting our time throwing red herrings like "She wrote one of those articles linked, right?" which can only refer to a multipart travelogue series she wrote for a separate magazine called Gokujō no piano, as mentioned on the wikipage. Not the two profiles in the two magazines aforementioned.

And while acting in the capacity of a (non-paying) disinterested party, I have added a couple of free sources online into the wiki, namely the H!P freemag aforementined and the Gazeta Babicka in Polish. So perhaps you will now knock it off with your mantra that media coverage being otherwise nonexistent.--Kiyoweap (talk) 18:02, 10 September 2023 (UTC)correction Kiyoweap (talk) 16:45, 11 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

So aggressive, let's calm down, we are all just discussing the possible notability of a minor pianist. Not worth getting so upset about. I didn't say you were a sockpuppet, I asked if you had a conflict of interest. I am glad you don't! So many others are biased in the discussion, so I'm glad you aren't. I have wrote many articles in magazines and have had articles written about me, not sure why you use that as a mark toward notability but I am glad your aggression felt toward me has helped inspire you to get newsletters and free magazines as sources and stuff. The more sources, the better! Thanks. We are still kind of sidetracked though, I think our discussion is about her notability. If you still feel like editing the article (I was waiting for the discussion to play out or until substantial sources showed up) please remove the "fan advertisement" feel and reduce or remove the Japanglish. Cheers, Nesnad (talk) 06:02, 11 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Ms. Lisa Nakazono is mentioned in YAMAHA Corporation 's business report.
ヤマハ株式会社第186期報告書　(2010年)
Please see page 41.　
https://www.yamaha.com/ja/ir/business/pdf/repo-2010.pdf
It says:
Yamaha Ginza Building opened on February 26th. On the day of the event, after the ribbon cutting ceremony, pianist Lisa Nakazono performed at the portal on the first floor.
ヤマハ銀座ビルが2月26日にグランドオープン
当日はテープカット・セレモニーの後、一階ポータルにてピアニスト中園理沙さんによる演奏も行われました。
This ceremony was held in Feburuary 26, 2010. Sanobunji (talk) 13:25, 11 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks. English Wikipedia doesn't like name mentions only when trying to establish notability though. You'll notice even the president/chief executive officer​ of Yamaha on page 1 of your link (梅村充) doesn't have a Japanese Wikipedia page, and even if he did he doesn't have an English one. Notability isn't just having your name listed somewhere or something. The best sources you can find are long interviews in reputable magazines/newspapers etc that help to establish facts about her and give things to be used as a source instead of just trying to reference her personal promotion webpage etc. Thanks for your effort. Nesnad (talk) 15:34, 11 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
You reacted exactly as I expected. I know that no matter what I show you, you will always complain. The Yamaha Ginza Opening Ceremony by Yamaha Corporation was important and worthy of mentioning in their business report. As you can see here, the Asahi Shimbun 朝日新聞 on February 26, 2010 treated the opening ceremony of the Yamaha Ginza Building as an extra edition 号外, which meant that the Asahi Shimbun positioned it as an event of high interest in Japan. Ms. Lisa Nakazono performed at this event and her name and photo are listed here.
朝日新聞号外　Asahishimbun extra edition February 26, 2010.
You can see the scan of extra edition here,　
http://www.risa-nakazono.com/concert/schedule2010.html
I just try to convey the fact. Sanobunji (talk) 19:40, 11 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I think it's high time this deletion attempt is declared failed, with keep made the outcome.

The criterion of major label is met since she signed 2CDs with Aniplex which is Sony owned. I see that A. B. voted "keep" ("2 albums with a major record label per above.") on this.

It has been reported in media that "[In her 4th year in college] she received an offer from the Sony Music label to record an album (wytwórni muzycznej Sony Music propozycję nagrania płyty)" in the Polish "Gazette"[24] which I already told this table I've added.

So let's make this the last call for anyone besides Nesnad to raise his hand and say Aniplex is not really Sony. Otherwise the debate closes with the deletionists' motion defeated. --Kiyoweap (talk) 15:33, 11 September 2023 (UTC) Extended quote Kiyoweap (talk) 16:01, 11 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Kiyoweap I understand you have an invested interest but other users are voting delete. I'm just trying to keep things realistic. Just because the Polish newsletter got confused doesn't mean that we should write the wrong information. She is not on Sony Music. I hope we can find some good sources and I hope we can flesh out the article. But don't make it what it is not. Nesnad (talk) 15:37, 11 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Nesnad, you are not in the position of saying the media is confused. Especially since you are the one who is "mixed up", confused, and telling lies over and over again. --Kiyoweap (talk) 15:51, 11 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
You seem to have a personal problem with me? If so, I'm sorry about that. I've just been trying to stick to the facts. Maybe I am mistaken or HMV[25] is mistaken as listing the label as Aniplex. But I think you are getting stuck on the wrong thing. If those two minor albums are good enough to be notable then people will vote keep. If they aren't then they won't. We need to be finding sources of notability not fighting about details about already established facts. I am not sure why you take this so personal, I have no negative feelings toward you or Ms. Nakazono or anyone. I have also been trying to find sources that establish clear notability, no luck on my end yet. But if we can find enough to sway people, great! I'm OK with the page being kept of course. If we can't, then I'm OK with the page not being kept. Not all pianists in the world deserve a page, so don't take it personal! Nesnad (talk) 16:51, 11 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Just stop it. The label is Aniplex, which is wholly owned by Sony Music Entertainment group. Therefore it not a case of the Polish media being "confused" if they say she was approached by Sony Music to record the album, and not a mistake for a magazine to attribute the CD as "Aniplex/SMG" as you can see for yourself in the March 2009 issue of Piano from the scan on her website.[26] --Kiyoweap (talk) 17:41, 11 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The "delete" voters (Oaktree b, BrigadierG) could have realized in their searches that the 2CD requirement for notability had been met, so unless they reappraise on the CD issue, I think their votes will become invalidated.

Also as to their votes being [based on] media coverage, their own searches of Japanese or English sources (not Polish) may have been unsuccessful, but they probably didn't notice Nakazono's web page listing her own media coverage,[27] leading to the discovery of seemingly substantial coverage pieces such as these:

  • Piano magazine (March 2009 issue, scanned)[28]
  • Micchaku reports in Chopin monthly magazine　(Feb–April issues, in 3 parts, Yamaha group publishing, paywall)[29][30][31]
  • H!P (freemag from Kanagawa Shimbun company)[32]
  • Gazetta Babicka (local district paper covering 2013 Polish concert)[33]

Note that her Polish concert was not just printed but also televised,[34] so WP:MUSICBIO #4 seems fulfilled also. --Kiyoweap (talk) 18:53, 11 September 2023 (UTC)minor fixesKiyoweap (talk) 19:05, 11 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry I overlooked that on CD issue, Oaktree b had said "Being signed to Sony Music would pass NMUSIC, but the sourcing just isn't there" but I have refuted Oaktree to have been mistaken here, as per the Polish gazette's "Sony Music propozycję nagrania płyty" and Japanese "Aniplex/SMG" quoted above, with "SMG (Sony Music Group)" being the old pre-merger name for that division. --Kiyoweap (talk) 19:23, 11 September 2023 (UTC) --link fix, etc. Kiyoweap (talk) 19:25, 11 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I was worried about the lack of sourcing, not the fact that she wasn't notable. Oaktree b (talk) 22:20, 11 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Right. I'm an inclusionist but the fact that some users try to cram her into English Wikipedia with just a few not notable sources makes me feel a bit like this article is astroturfing or something. That's why I was looking for more than small local sources and trying to find something substantial to put in the article as a source but can't find anything yet. I understand Kiyoweap translated this into English and feels like we are deleting their hard work, but that's not my intent. I just honestly think we have to be fair and realistic about available sources to back up notability or not. Not all minor pianists are notable enough for English Wikipedia, if that turns out to be the case I don't mean anything negative to Kiyoweap or Ms. Nakazono of course. Nesnad (talk) 00:42, 12 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
If I understand correctly, Oaktree b agrees on notability being established Being signed to Sony Music would pass NMUSIC now that I've now named two magazine sources.
BTW, while HMV salepoint site only just happens to only mention Aniplex but not Sony,[35] other sales sites like Bic Camera only mention "Sony Music Marketing ソニーミュージックマーケティング"[36][37] and Kinokuniya site names" Sony Music Solutions ソニー・ミュージックソリューションズ" as seller/distributor[38]. Please don't get bamboozled by the dishonest WP:CHERRYPICKing. --Kiyoweap (talk) 04:56, 12 September 2023 (UTC)—Copyedited Kiyoweap (talk) 05:02, 12 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@Nesnad, you are not neutral here. We know you were at Ms. Nakazono's concert in Tokyo, Japan on October 15, 2017(Polish festival in Japan). And you took her photo(now you have personality rights warning on Wikimedia) and you put her photo you took in the article on the next day. If you thought from the beginning that she didn't deserve to have an English page here, why did you put her photo in the article? Wouldn't it have been better to object from the beginning? You deliberately misrepresented her facts, and you definitely refused to acknowledge that Sony Music's official website listed her as an artist on their own page　https://www.sonymusic.co.jp/artistlist/, and you misrepresented her false information. Please don't bring your personal negative feelings towards her here. No matter what evidence we give you, you will never acknowledge it. Please just be neutral.
​ Sanobunji (talk) 06:30, 12 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@Sanobunji I think you misunderstand how Wikimedia Commons works. You can upload photos there even if there is no article. It's about documenting Japan and our current era. Also, you misunderstand and think I am against Ms. Nakazono having a Wikipedia page. I'm not. But I also understand that you must be notable to have an English Wikipedia page. If she isn't notable, she can't force herself to have a page. If she is notable, she can. That's what people are deciding here. She is a good artist, so even if she is deemed not notable now, maybe she will be in the future. Cheers, Nesnad (talk) 10:53, 12 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
You always dodge the main point. I said I am not here to play maind game with you.
Also, I have alreday introduced myself to you I am just an elderly man and my daughter is her close friend.
Ms. Nakazono currently lives in China which can not access Wikipedia, Google, Facebook, etc. Who said that she forces herself to have a page? Or did you talk to her directly? Or did she say that somewhere? - NO.
She defenitely does not force anything. (Why I know that because I and my daughter had a video chat with her) Her values are different from yours.
Everything what you said above is just a speculation based on your prejudice, and an abusive attack on Ms. Nakazono's character.
Pleae stop it. You are free to think she is not notable. However, you must stop to say something with your speculation based on your prejudice. Sanobunji (talk) 14:42, 12 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
As for BrigadierG who added new comment at top: while I agree that "SPAs bludgeoning the discussion", in your words, may have "drudged up" a "sheer quantity of WP:ROUTINE" mentions not more than calendars, please be able to separate wheat from chaff.

I am neither SPA nor COI, and I did name four sources above, which contradict IMHO your claim there is no high quality in-depth coverage.
It is true it is a short list, but WP:MUSICBIO #1 is still met since the guideline language only stipulates "multiple, non-trivial" and not dozens, and do not exclude trade magazines or rural press.

And WP:MUSICBIO #5 on 2CDs is met also, which you have thus far side-stepped. --Kiyoweap (talk) 08:16, 12 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with BrigadierG though, besides you who feels connected to the article because you translated it, there are just SPAs throwing up links to small concerts and stuff. If all decades ago released minor release CDs got a page it would be chaos. Please don't misunderstand, if people agree she is notable, then I am OK with that-- honestly! But I haven't seen any in-depth coverage even though I have been looking, and that's a fact. She just seems like a minor pianoist, one of millions in Japan. Just stay true to the facts instead of attacking people. Cheers, Nesnad (talk) 10:50, 12 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I take it back, you're not an SPA, but this is one of the worst cases of WP:BLUDGEONING I've seen in a while. BrigadierG (talk) 12:06, 12 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
If you don't have the will to verify the contents of the WP:RS foreign sources using machine translations, and think it's fine to say "I don't see in-depth coverage" based on your lack of effort, the both of you, then you are not fit to discuss foreign-language sourcing here, or anywhere.
I too would have preferred if visitors from Japan refrained from the barrage of mostly non-RS. But this was half-expected, had you heeded Oaktree b warning "I've translated some Japanese BLP for grid girls recently and the sourcing doesn't seem to be as good in the Japanese wiki as what we use".
It still does not serve as an excuse for you to ignore WP:RS that I filtered out, saying it got buried inside the piles heaped by the SPAs.
Again, the 2 CD criterion has passed, with only Nesnad still visibly insisting "minor release CDs", and his take on reality, that a product of a major Sony subsidiary is not really Sony, and therefore minor, can hardly be accepted as "realistic", though he keeps saying this ad nauseum. --Kiyoweap (talk) 15:54, 12 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not going to engage any further on the topic. I've looked at the evidence presented and voted. BrigadierG (talk) 16:20, 12 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Ok. --Kiyoweap (talk) 16:40, 12 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
First of all, the deletion motion by the nominator Imaginatorium was not neutrally presented at the beginning, with the commentary that this "page has been plagued by POV fancruft since its inception". And although I sympathize that I have acted similarly in my past, in our case here, it may indeed have led to imparting to others the preconceived notion of excessive fan or COI interference.

And Imaginatorium had given himself the wrong impression of greater misconduct than real, back in 2014 PNT request (here, §Lisa Nakazono-Węgłowska) when he came to the wrong conclusion that the Japanese wiki page was nonexistent, leading to the frivolous accusation against the English version creator: "Where is this "initial language"? Actually this appears to be close to a direct (and not very good, of course) translation of the artist's website". --Kiyoweap (talk) 16:40, 12 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Dear @Kiyoweap and @Oaktree b, @BrigadierG, @A. B.
We, the visitors from Japan, sincerely apologize to you all if we have offended you. In the beggining, We just came here to tell you all that this deletion request came from unreasonable anger based on incorrect facts from Mr. Imaginatorium. We just tried to correct her name given to Ms. Nakazono's photo here because it was incorrect(It said Lisa Nakazono-Węgłowska). The photo was taken in 2016, so her name was already Lisa Nakazono at that time. But Mr. Imaginatorium said she was a Lisa Nakazono-Węgłowska at that time, It is not a promotion page nor fan page and got angry with us and changed her name back to Lisa Nakazono-Węgłowska again. Shortly after that, he submitted this deletion request. So the reason why we Japanese visitors came here was simply to try to explain we just wanted to correct her name and show the proof. However, after that, Mr. Nesnad attacked us relentlessly, and he repeatedly defaming Ms. Nakazono. We Japanese visitors sincerely apologize for getting heated. We have no intention of disturbing you all. Also, we all do not force you all to think Ms. Nakazono is notable. We just wanted to convey the fact we know. Also, Ms. Nakazono never ever foece anyone to think she is notable enough to be here, She is not such a person. We know that. Now, we are leaving. We truly respect and appreciate your lot of hard work. Especially dear @Kiyoweap, thank you so much for your lot of hard work to find sources, translate mamy articles. Ms. Nakazono wants to show her sincere and deep appliciation to you too. (I talked to her on the phone.)
Thank you so much.
And dear @Imaginatorium, We appreciate your hard work too.
Sincerely,
Japanese visitors 2001:268:C2C2:801:255B:2DCB:2C6:CE6F (talk) 17:48, 12 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Please don't ping me further at this point, I've rendered my decision as above. Oaktree b (talk) 18:26, 12 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@Kiyoweap: I really do not understand what you are trying to say here. I wrote everything you quote in good faith, and I believe all of it to be substantially true. The page has been a "fan page" from the beginning, as the fanbase themselves candidly admit (They are here so everyone in the world who cannot read Japanese, which by definition means they read English, can know about Lisa Nakazono), and numerous other editors have commented on this. The 2014 discussion about "translation": I was not aware that "Translation" refers only to precisely cases where there is a WP page in some other language which has or appears to be translated into this one. That is why I asked where the "initial version" was, and I commented that the page appeared to be more or less a translation of the subject's webpage. This is not a "frivolous accusation", in fact none of what I wrote is an accusation of anything. Perhaps you might like to reword or clarify. Imaginatorium (talk) 13:31, 13 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Lisa_Nakazono&oldid=1175302078"