Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Levi Addison Gardner (2nd nomination)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was redirect‎ to Dorothy Ayer Gardner Ford. as an ATD. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 02:16, 28 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Levi Addison Gardner[edit]

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Biography of a politician, not properly sourced as passing WP:NPOL. The main notability claim here is that he was mayor of a small town, which is not an automatic inclusion freebie in and of itself -- mayors don't automatically get articles just because they existed, and have to be shown to pass WP:GNG on substantive coverage and analysis about their mayoralty: specific things they did, specific projects they spearheaded, specific effects their leadership had on the development of the town they were mayor of, and on and so forth, but there's absolutely none of that here.
The only other notability claim being attempted here is that he was the grandfather of a more notable person -- but notability is not inherited, and people who are not themselves notable in their own right don't get articles just because they were related to other people. And the footnotes here are both just genealogy sites, which are not support for notability at all, rather than reliable source media coverage or books about him to establish his notability.
This is different enough in form from the first version to not qualify for immediate speedy as a recreation of deleted content, but it isn't providing any stronger evidence that he would pass any notability criteria in his own right independently of being a grandfather. Bearcat (talk) 18:47, 13 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Politicians and Illinois. Bearcat (talk) 18:47, 13 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: For a rather ho-hum president, there's a surprising number of things written about the family, but not about Levi... [1]. Hits in Gbooks as well, but most seem to be family tree things, nothing extensive. Oaktree b (talk) 18:53, 13 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

~~Delete~~ The only sources I could find were either for his relation to Ford or people with similar names in other parts of the country. While it's impossible to know what else there is in newspapers that havent been digitaly archived without looking thorugh them, I can't see anything to meet WP:GNG or WP:NPOLITICIAN. I would suggest a merge but it's already on Ford's page so there's nothing to really add. Shaws username . talk . 19:01, 13 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Draftify, while I'd be ok with deletion per my resasons above, draftifying makes sense to me given the time and effort required to track down news reports from the era. Shaws username . talk . 20:09, 13 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Draftify, it is possible for this article to be improved. Youprayteas (talk to me? | contribs) 19:32, 13 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete I would agree. He initially seemed notable to me, being the grandfather of a president and being the mayor of a town, but if one cannot find more sources, I myself would encourage deletion of the page. Thanks - Roger — Preceding undated comment added 19:08, 13 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, on second thought, I move we move the page to a draft, where it may be improved. — Preceding unsigned comment added by RogerNotable (talk • contribs) 19:13, 13 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Businesspeople-related deletion discussions. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 19:40, 13 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

~~Delete~~ Redirect (optional Draftify if author wants more time to see if they can dig up some sources). The current sources do not show any notability and a quick newspaper search and google failed to find any sources to help. KylieTastic (talk) 17:03, 18 February 2024 (UTC) — Changed from deleted to redirect per later comments. KylieTastic (talk) 10:41, 27 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
~~Draftify~~ Redirect: If @RogerNotable wants some time to look up other sources, that's fine with me as an ~~alternative to deletion~~ alternative to deletion. Regarding lack of newspaper coverage, that's not a major concern for me since historical newspapers are usually primary sources. I'm also not concerned that this page was deleted before; the first deletion discussion was largely "per nom" and conclusory !votes. Given that Gardner was Gerald Ford's grandfather, I suggest that Roger look at some biographies of Ford to see if there's any significant coverage of Gardner in them. If he was notable during his life, there might also be entries in biographical encyclopedias, such as The National Cyclopaedia of American Biography. If those searches turn up nothing, I would think Gardner is probably not notable. Changed !vote to redirect per @IgnatiusofLondon. voorts (talk/contributions) 19:38, 19 February 2024 (UTC), 00:00, 22 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per Bearcat. Doesn't appear to meet GNG, unconvinced he will be able to. SportingFlyer T·C 21:43, 19 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to Dorothy Ayer Gardner Ford his daughter as a reasonable search term. There isn't really any evidence of independent notability, but it makes sense, IMHO, to send people looking for him to the couple of sentences in his daughter's article. Eluchil404 (talk) 00:53, 20 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: I'm fairly confident we can find sources to support an article of reasonable size, though whether it will meet notability criteria is another question. I can't access The Chicago Tribune, but I am seeing hits at 1 and 2. I've added a source from the Ford Library Museum, and can see more coming (e.g. 3, 4). My instinct is that there is a possibility of notability that does not merit deletion, so preserving the page history by redirecting to a sensible target is a preferable WP:ATD than deletion, if the article cannot be kept. IgnatiusofLondon (talk) 03:16, 21 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Also seeing local newspaper hits I can't access: 5 and 6. To be honest, these kinds of sources are probably the most likely to establish notability independent of the subject's family. IgnatiusofLondon (talk) 04:13, 21 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Indeed, at the time of her marriage in 1912, The Harvard Herald spoke of Dorothy as "one of the most popular of Harvard young ladies" (7), which suggests to me that there is likely plenty of historical local newspaper coverage about the family. IgnatiusofLondon (talk) 04:19, 21 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: More discussion around whether or not to pursue an alternative to deletion would be helpful in attaining a consensus here.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, — Red-tailed hawk _(nest) 03:28, 21 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect to Dorothy Ayer Gardner Ford. I've incorporated the sources I found into the article. The sources do not suggest notability independent from the subject's involvement in his daughter's marriage or his being Ford's grandfather: when the subject is discussed, it is always in either context. The sources I have added contain details about Ford's relationship to his daughter which an interested editor could merge into Dorothy's entry. As a WP:ATD, preserving the page history allows the article to be recreated if further sources emerge: there are likely to be further sources offline that an interested editor could consult, and I don't think it's unreasonable for some local historian or newspaper to run an article on the early politics of Harvard someday which might push notability. If someone could also check out the Chicago Tribune sources above that I can't access, I'd be grateful to know if they add anything. IgnatiusofLondon (talk) 04:02, 21 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.