Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Lena Park, Indiana

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was move to draft‎. Seraphimblade ^{Talk to me} 05:22, 1 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Lena Park, Indiana[edit]

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I'm having to fight to have this article tell the truth, which is that Lena Park was a scam and that there never was such a settlement in reality. There's even a cite for that, but some unwary USGS employee looked at a dot on a Indiana DOT map and decided it was a real place, and so now it's back to being an "unincorporated community" because WP:GNIS. It's not real, and it never has been, and in this case I'm dubious that the Indiana DOT via GNIS is a reliable source for the place where the scam was supposed to have been. The topo what shows this name is so bad that it shows a small grid of streets a bit to the south (which I presume was supposed to be the location of the town) which are utterly fictitious. Given a single reference I'm dubious that it's a notable scam, which is why we are here, but at any rate my next move is going to be removing all the appurtenances of this being a place of any kind from the article if we decide it should be kept. Mangoe (talk) 13:47, 24 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Indiana-related deletion discussions. Owen× ☎ 14:01, 24 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Question: Would it maybe be possible to re-title the article Lena Park scam or some such, fill in details of the real-estate scam, and remove the bit about it being an unincorporated community? The second reference in the article is pretty detailed, suggesting there is a body of reliable information about this incident. But the article as it stands is unacceptable, since this isn't an unincorporated community and never was. WeirdNAnnoyed (talk) 15:21, 24 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- So that the article looks more like Special:Permalink/1106806863, say? ☺ Uncle G (talk) 15:35, 24 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- WeirdNAnnoyed that's a good idea, considering that the scam itself would make a good article - if the sourcing could be found. It would need to be rewritten, but it is interesting. — Maile (talk) 20:54, 24 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  - I would be fine with this solution, assuming we all agree on the notability. Mangoe (talk) 21:31, 24 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    - Maybe the location became a scam, but it appears to have been a location with a railroad stop. I support moving to something like Lena Park scam. Mentions here 1 and 2. -- Jaireeodell (talk) 01:41, 25 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

references

"Lena Park, Deserted City". Muncie Evening Press. Muncie, Indiana. 1912-03-07. p. 2.
McCormick, Joseph Norman (1915). A standard history of Starke County, Indiana. Vol. 1. Chicago and New York: Lewis Publishing Company. (A standard history of Starke County, Indiana at the Internet Archive)
Allen, Marvin (2008). "Wayne Township". A photographic history of Starke County Indian (PDF).
Wilkinson Jr, William Clayton (December 2006). "Memories of the Ku Klux Klan in One Indiana Town". Indiana Magazine of History. 102 (4): 339–354. JSTOR 27792753.

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Geography-related deletion discussions. Skynxnex (talk) 20:31, 24 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
McCormick 1915 makes zero mention of any sort of community, only the farming of onions and peppermint "at or near to" or "in the neighbourhood of" Lena Park. A county historian in 2008 says very little:
Lena Park's train depot and glass factory were right across the road from the farm. One hundred years ago, Lena Park was promoted as "The New Manufacturing City, only surpassed by the world's most rapid growth town, Gary, Indiana".
— Allen 2008
Wilkinson Jr 2006, p. 341 repeats this and adds little more except that there never was a cut glass factory, it never going into operation because (it was claimed) the sand was not suitable for glass-making, something that Allen clearly missed.
If there's sourcing to be had, it isn't the history books. This one is down to the newspapers and whatever is in there, such as MEP 1912 which says that the glass factory appears to have been a "dummy" corporation, the building and plant machinery implied to be purely for show, and not going into operation because it was never intended to in the first place, and that whoeever bought the (by 1912) empty lots would get "a nice piece of farm land", which presumably those onion and peppermint farmers as of 3 years later had done. At least one peppermint farm still exists across the road in the next section.
Time for your newspaper citations, newspaper-searchers! ☺
Shame on the editor who brought GNIS "unincorporated community" crap back in to this article, when we have contemporary sources saying that it never was and 21st century sources discussing Wayne Township schools (not even on this section of the township) and farmers, in December 2023.
Uncle G (talk) 06:22, 25 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Draftify and rename to Lena Park scam. While the settlement fails GEOLAND, the scam potentially meets EVENTCRIT based on the sources mentioned above; revision 1106806863 looks like a good starting point. Owen× ☎ 11:22, 25 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment I cannot access newspapers.com via the wiki library, It's not working right now. But the other database has a ton of newspaper coverage. I don't know how to bring it here though. There were one or two articles I found that comments on the debacle. The Central Cut glass factory was a legit company that was I guess tricked into starting a location there. They reportedly operated until the summer of 1911. At that point the factory moved to Saginaw Michigan citing unfavorable labor conditions. According this account the scammers owned the land but for whatever reason it was considered worthless, only useful for farming. I'd guess the scammers were likely scammed by someone else. So rather than lose money on it they hyped it and sold it as premium. They hired trains to haul in recent immigrants looking for a new life, and paid agents to find them and bring them to gala affairs where they hawked the lots. Basically, this was the predecessor to time share salesmen. They promised several companies would employ people there and that it would be a repeat of the success of Gary Indiana. Business sprung up, a hotel was built, there was newspaper. If was a great success and was populated for a few years. So, I get impression that the place could have worked just through the sheer will of the immigrants. But, the scammers took the money then never recorded the deeds at the county office. It might be the scammers couldn't afford to file the deeds I guess. The county eventually took the land and sold it for non payment of taxes. And, the scammers fled when the scammees came for them with guns. I'm not entirely sure it started as scam, maybe it was just a failed development with flair. If there are specific questions I will look for themJames.folsom (talk) 21:02, 27 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Draftify to Lena Park scam. It seems that the "community" never actually existed, and there's currently not enough factual information to justify a mainspace article. –dlthewave ☎ 16:11, 29 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep renaming to Lena Park scam or something similar seems to make sense. I think the scam seems notable, albeit the news coverage is not extensive, probably because mostly recent immigrants were duped. Aside from the notability debate, I must say this is a fascinating story.--Milowent • ^hasspoken 21:55, 29 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment This was definitely populated, it had at least a factory that people worked at. The question now is around notability, and whether writing an article from mostly newspaper clippings is acceptable or not. If it's not notable, then its delete. But, there still seems to be a lot of disagreement around determining the notability of populated places.James.folsom (talk) 23:56, 29 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I was trying to verify the glass factory did exist, and apparently it did based on the citations I'm adding from newspaperarchive.com. ETA: I even found a photo of the glass factory[1], I wonder how long that building lasted.--Milowent • ^hasspoken 13:47, 30 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.