Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Leland William Modjeski (2nd nomination)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete per WP:ONEEVENT. Keep arguments were based upon speculation and not within policy. Smashville^talk 05:46, 31 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Leland William Modjeski[edit]

Per WP:ONEEVENT, Wikipedia is not a news source. This guy is famous only for jumping the fence at the White House. —Cyclonenim (talk · contribs · email) 14:51, 21 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Comment This was also nominated a while back with other intruders, but a lot of them met the notability criteria. This one, however, doesn't. —Cyclonenim (talk · contribs · email) 14:55, 21 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Delete- Unless someone can come up with some more sources and indications of further notability, this seems like a BLP1E case to me. Umbralcorax (talk) 16:36, 21 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Living people-related deletion discussions. -- • Gene93k (talk) 23:25, 21 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Crime-related deletion discussions. -- • Gene93k (talk) 23:26, 21 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Ron Ritzman (talk) 00:04, 26 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Delete as WP:ONEEVENT, or really ZEROEVENT, as I don't think simply jumping over the White House fence with an unloaded weapon meets encyclopedia notability standards even for that event. Baileypalblue (talk) 00:47, 26 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

As for the other articles addressed in the first AfD, they should probably be re-considered under WP:ONEEVENT, as the issue was never dealt with in the first AfD, which was closed for procedural reasons. I haven't researched the backgrounds of these other men, to determine if they are notable for events other than their White House incursions; but if they are not, their articles should be redirect/merged to articles on the incidents, rather than the men themselves. (Note: it looks like the other incursions are more notable than Modjeski's, and so could merit articles of their own). Baileypalblue (talk) 01:00, 26 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Delete this really does look like a BLPzeroE to me too. ON SECOND THOUGHT it is a near miracle this isn't just speedy deleted as CSD A7 garbage. JBsupreme (talk) 07:27, 26 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Keep attempts to shoot the president, even apparent attempts to shoot the president, are highly notable parts of history whether or not they succeed. This odes not see to have been one of the more serious attempts in recent years, but it still got nationwide coverage, as one would expect. That is quite enough for notability. . This is not what LP one event means- those who do things like this do major public crimes of potentially national importance, & the press the public, and Wikipedia treat them accordingly. DGG (talk) 07:49, 26 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Comment I am not disputing the notability of the event, if there is an article for the event, it should exist. BLP1E, however, clearly states biographical articles shouldn't normally exist for one events, where the person can simply be mentioned in the article for the event itself. —Cyclonenim (talk · contribs · email) 13:52, 26 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Delete While the event might be notable in the relevant article, WP:ONEEVENT clearly says that biographical articles usually shouldn't exist. I see no need for anything except perhaps a small mention on the page for the White House. If that also fails, the whole event can be mentioned at WikiNews and linked to that page. - Mgm|^(talk) 11:01, 26 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Merge and Redirect to White House intruders. The short info in the article can, and should, be easily housed here, where it doesn't violate WP:ONEEVENT. Other intrusion events in this article don't have as much info, but we shouldn't shy away from starting a small-scale article expansion by merging this over. At the VERY least, this should be redirected. SMSpivey (talk) 08:17, 29 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Merge and Redirect per SMSpivey above. White House intruders is a suitable target for this material and there is no need to delete stuff that can go there. Blood Red Sandman ^{(Talk) (Contribs)} 19:46, 29 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Strong keep I agree with DGG's great points, attempting to kill the president is enough to make a person notable. 54 google news hits,[1] including Washington Post x4, Los Angeles Times, New York Times, New York Daily News, Miami Herald, MSNBC, Milwaukee Journal Sentinel, Kansas City Star, etc...4 books[2] By the narrow definition of one event here, the 9/11 terrorists should not have a page, nor Hinkley. They, too are only famous for one event. Would changing the name to Attempted 1995 assassination of Bill Clinton make this article acceptable? Because one event states, "Cover the event, not the person." Ikip (talk) 01:42, 30 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Some comments:

Modjeski did not attempt to kill the President, and it's questionable as even an apparent attempt to kill the President -- the Washington Post article cited, written immediately after the event, instead describes it as either a suicide attempt or an attempt to see the President.
I've already stated I don't believe this incident is notable enough to justify its own article (in contrast to some of the others linked in this AfD) -- not every White House security breach is notable enough for an encyclopedia, even though every one will receive media coverage; this is a good example of the reason why WP:NOTNEWS exists.
If, however, consensus finds this event to be notable, it should be covered in an article on the event, as you say: "cover the event, not the person" per WP:BLP1E. Attempted 1995 assassination of Bill Clinton is not an appropriate title because it wasn't an assassination attempt; perhaps May 1995 White House incursion, adding the month for specificity and uniformity because other years have had multiple White House incursions, so their articles would need to include the month.
If you want to fight a narrow interpretation of WP:ONEEVENT/WP:BLP1E, Modjeski is a poor test case, because he doesn't have the cultural impact of your counterexamples (Hinckley, 9/11 hijackers); a looser interpretation of WP:BLP1E would mean keeping the Hinckley bio and deleting Modjeski. Regards, Baileypalblue (talk) 05:41, 30 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.