Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Kostas Novakis (2nd nomination)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Sandstein 11:49, 1 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Kostas Novakis[edit]

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The subject of the article does not meet WP:GNG or WP:Notability (music). Furthermore his works appear to be self-published as per (in Greek) http://www.protoporia.gr/author_info.php?authors_id=949560 , and all of the interwiki links have the same content and sources as the en one. Gts-tg (talk) 18:00, 27 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Keep, for the same reason as last time [1]. Not a massive amount of outside coverage, but some fairly substantial material (the Eleftherotypia article now mirrored here: [2] and [3]). Note that the fact that his own works are self-published is quite irrelevant as a criterion here; what counts is the independence of the secondary coverage. Fut.Perf. ☼ 21:32, 27 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

WP:GNG and WP:Notability (music) were ignored completely last time. Let's see why. The 2004 Eleftherotypia article is a reprint of an earlier 2003 press release in a music magazine (Jazz & Τζάζ, 4/2003) where the artist talks about himself, which is a source credibility fail as per the criterion number 1 exceptions at Wikipedia:Notability_(music)#Criteria_for_musicians_and_ensembles. Of course, even if this source was counted as credible, it is far from being counted on its own as multiple, non-trivial, published works appearing in sources. Also, with regards to the claim that "the fact his own works are self-published is quite irrelevant as a criterion" this is plain false and in direct contrast to criterion number 5 at Wikipedia:Notability_(music)#Criteria_for_musicians_and_ensembles; Simply no part of WP:Notability (music) is satisfied by the person. Gts-tg (talk) 23:16, 27 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Huh? What makes you think the Eleftherotypia piece is a "reprint", and what makes you think the piece in Jazz & Τζάζ is a mere press release? As far as I can see, the Eleftherotypia article is merely quoting a line from the Jazz & Τζάζ piece, and the latter (by Kostas Fokis) is likely to be a review, i.e. yet another piece of independent coverage. Fut.Perf. ☼ 04:21, 28 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, what makes you think that it isn't? The "some fairly substantial material" or the "likely to be a review and another piece of independent coverage" salad dressing? The source and date along with the author are quoted at the top and the quoted line is the original title of the text and within the text the person clearly talks about himself. Maybe if we try like really really hard and zen meditate we can make it out to likely be his PhD thesis? Or ignore that his works being self-published is a huge red flag? Gts-tg (talk) 06:20, 28 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Nonsense. The Eleftherotypia piece was published in "IOS" ("ΙΟΣ"), a cultural/political supplement of the Eleftherotypia newspaper. The text itself clearly refers to "IOS" as its target platform ("ένα από τα αγαπημένα θέματα του «Ιού»", identifying "this column" as a sociopolitical rather than a music-related one), so it's unambiguously an original text written for that publication and not for the Jazz magazine. The thing you misidentify as a source line is a quotation, nothing else. As for "talking about himself", you are obviously misrepresenting the guideline. Its point is that publications are barred from consideration if they are in their entirety a mouthpiece of the subjects talking about themselves, such as press releases, not if they merely contain some interview material but are otherwise written independently, as is clearly the case here. Fut.Perf. ☼ 08:25, 28 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

IOS was Eletherotypia's side magazine distributed along with the newspaper, so it's still Eleftherotypia reprinting that old source. But, oh sorry, I got sidetracked. What part of the above covers WP:GNG and WP:Notability (music) again? And still no reply about his works being self-published. Gts-tg (talk) 10:18, 28 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

You aren't listening. No, it's not "reprinting that old source"; I just demonstrated to you that the text was written originally for IOS/Eleftherotypia. And I've already covered the thing about the self-published works. The criteria at Wikipedia:Notability_(music)#Criteria_for_musicians_and_ensembles are sufficient, but not necessary criteria – while publication of an artist's work on high-profile labels could in itself constitute grounds for notability, their absence is of no concern as long as other criteria are met, in this case the criterion of independent journalistic coverage (at least Eleftherotypia/Ios and Dnevnik, probably that Jazz magazine; another one in Eleftherotypia here [4]). Fut.Perf. ☼ 10:55, 28 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Great, thank you for demonstrating and finding probably that Jazz magazine and another tiny snippet mention in Eleftherotypia. It's just that I find that the above feedback you are providing is megaPOVd and ignores policy. Anyway I'm out, time for other people to share their thoughts. Gts-tg (talk) 11:25, 28 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Delete I agree with nominator. I can't find enough independent coverage. ツStacey (talk) 21:25, 4 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, — Music1201 ^talk 21:39, 6 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Authors-related deletion discussions. GabeIglesia (talk) 02:19, 7 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Greece-related deletion discussions. GabeIglesia (talk) 02:19, 7 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Onel5969 ^{TT me} 13:30, 16 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Delete Agreed. All elaborate conversations aside the article fails WP:Notability (music) and is not qualified for inclusion. - Pmedema (talk) 14:05, 16 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Delete at best for now as I'm not seeing anything particularly better of the needed solid notability. SwisterTwister talk 19:34, 22 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: final relist Nakon 02:20, 24 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Nakon 02:20, 24 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Delete - insufficient coverage to establish notability. The sources given report "The First Macedonian CD is released in Greece", as a mostly political news event, which doesn't appear to have WP:SUSTAINED coverage. The information about the release could maybe be added to some article about Greek & Macedonian culture or politics, but doesn't warrant an article itself. It definitely doesn't warrant a dedicated biography article about Novakis, see WP:BIO1E. -- IamNotU (talk) 13:44, 25 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - falls down on both the GNG and WP:NMUSIC as currently sourced. ✤ Fosse 8 ✤ 10:35, 1 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.