Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Klemens Zamoyski
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was keep. (non-admin closure) (t · c) buidhe 22:28, 13 January 2021 (UTC)
Klemens Zamoyski[edit]
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- Klemens Zamoyski (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log)
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Does not meet any criteria for WP:NOTABLE. Two very brief sentences. Has been flagged since 2009 asking for sources. Subject appears to have done nothing during the 20 years of his life. Smerus (talk) 21:05, 6 January 2021 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Poland-related deletion discussions. Spiderone 21:17, 6 January 2021 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. Spiderone 21:18, 6 January 2021 (UTC)
- Keep. While this is pretty much a WP:SUBSTUB the subject is notable. I've added two sources, a local newspaper and better, a book where he seems to have a few page-long biography (although I can't verify this due to snippet view). A search for "Klemens Zamoyski"+1767 on google books shows a bunch more mentions, some of which appear non-trivial, although again, we run into the issue that most Polish books are available only with snippet view since Google doesn't care to deal with non-English copyright. If one had access to a Polish library it shouldn't be too hard to expand this into something longer, as there are indications the subject did, in fact, do something in his life. Well, at least a palace was named after him. PS. Also found an entry for him in a local/online encyclopedia [1] but not sure if it is reliable, it doesn't cite any sources, and the date of birth differs from ours. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 07:02, 7 January 2021 (UTC)
- Please explain how you conclude that "the subject is notable". You don't give any indication of what your possible (and maybe unreliable) Polish references say about him. Possible (and unreliable) references in Polish can't really count here. Of the two 'sources' you have added to the article, one says that KZ was an enegetic landlord, but there is no indication that it goes on to say anything else; the other, which incidentally gives a different birthdate and therefore does not substantiate the article text, specifically translates "he did not perform any significant administrative or state functions." The source you mention above, which you admit may not be reliable, tells us that he improved local forest management, made an unsuccesful attempt to improve trade with Armenia, and forbade wooden construction. Er.....that's it. --Smerus (talk) 11:05, 7 January 2021 (UTC)
- Smerus, As I said, my argument that he is likely notable rests on significant Google Book hits and snippet views. Granted, I cannot guarantee that they all contain significant coverage, but many read like logical excerpts of such lengthier coverage. For example: [2] "Klemens Zamoyski ( 1738 – 1767 ) . Gdy umarł ordynat Tomasz Antoni Zamoyski w 1751 roku , jego syn Klemens liczył 13 lat . Otrzymał staranne wychowanie w kraju i za granicą . Jego guwernerem był Francuz Charles de Sempol, pułkownik saski.". or [3] "Klemens Zamoyski odebrał bardzo staranne wykształcenie , był eleganckim młodzieńcem i namalowano szereg jego wizerunków, odznaczających się dużymi walorami dekoracyjnymi, a nawet artystycznymi. Te konterfekty, na których został przedstawiony w młodym wieku, są na ogół błędnie datowane, ponieważ badacze przyjmują, że VIII ordynat żył w latach 1737-1767, gdy w rzeczywistości urodzil się w 1738 roku." It seems clear that there are at least several reliable sources out there in which his life is discussed for at least several paragraphs, which IMHO satisfies GNG. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 06:32, 12 January 2021 (UTC)
- Please explain how you conclude that "the subject is notable". You don't give any indication of what your possible (and maybe unreliable) Polish references say about him. Possible (and unreliable) references in Polish can't really count here. Of the two 'sources' you have added to the article, one says that KZ was an enegetic landlord, but there is no indication that it goes on to say anything else; the other, which incidentally gives a different birthdate and therefore does not substantiate the article text, specifically translates "he did not perform any significant administrative or state functions." The source you mention above, which you admit may not be reliable, tells us that he improved local forest management, made an unsuccesful attempt to improve trade with Armenia, and forbade wooden construction. Er.....that's it. --Smerus (talk) 11:05, 7 January 2021 (UTC)
- Weak Keep He was a notable landowner and the Lord of the Zamość estate. He also owned the Ploskirovsk and Tarnów. So he may pass WP:NPOL?. However the number of Polish language editors is tiny. We should be slow to delete any of it. VocalIndia (talk) 18:41, 11 January 2021 (UTC)
- Keep My search also found several references in non-english works. His other language articles have a bit more info. Looks notable to me. Jeepday (talk) 18:25, 12 January 2021 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.