Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Karl-Georg Niebergall

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was speedy keep‎. Withdrawing AfD now that the distinction has been clarified between established chairs and personal ones. (non-admin closure) - car chasm (talk) 02:24, 4 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Karl-Georg Niebergall[edit]

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No indication of meeting WP:PROF. Article was deprodded with the claim that this professor seems to hold a named chair, which I can find no evidence of on the university website. - car chasm (talk) 19:07, 29 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Academics and educators, Philosophy, and Germany. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 19:09, 29 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: Courtesy ping to Necrothesp; where did you see that he was a named professor, as I was also unable to locate this claim? Curbon7 (talk) 22:39, 29 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
In the German system, full professors are generally chair of something. Niebergall is Chair of Logic and Philosophy of Language [1]. Whether that should be considered as equivalent to the sort of named chair that one might have in a US university is unclear to me. I have been told that there is a difference between established chairs (that are held by multiple people in sequence) and personal chairs (given only to one person as a way to list them as full professor) and that one is better than the other, but I don't really understand the distinction myself nor how to tell which one Niebergall has. Perhaps there is someone more familiar with German academia who can clarify. —David Eppstein (talk) 01:49, 30 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Weak delete. I'm not willing to extend automatic notability to all German full professors and I don't see anything here that goes beyond that, or anything in the citation record that would justify WP:PROF#C1 notability. The Stegmüller Award is an early-career award [2] that I think is too low-level for notability. —David Eppstein (talk) 20:11, 30 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
- Changing to weak keep now that the distinction between established and personal chairs has been clarified and we have documentation that he holds the more prestigious kind. —David Eppstein (talk) 20:46, 3 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. I love being misrepresented. My edit summary was actually: deprod; appears to hold an established chair. I didn't mention a named chair, as I am misquoted as doing. An established chair, as David Eppstein points out, is one that always exists, is only held by one individual at a time, and to which one is appointed, as opposed to a personal chair, which is merely an academic promotion to professorial rank (usually for long service) with no actual established chair attached. Named chairs (which are just established chairs that have the name of an individual or organisation attached, either because they funded the chair or in their honour) are relatively rare outside North America, where they seem to be the norm for established chairs. But he does hold an established chair (the Chair of Logic and Philosophy of Language). These are equivalent to named chairs and therefore meet WP:PROF #5. Many professors who already hold personal chairs are later appointed to established chairs, which are most definitely more prestigious. Wikipedia does not revolve around the American way of doing things, which is why PROF #5 quite clearly states "or an equivalent position in countries where named chairs are uncommon". -- Necrothesp (talk) 07:39, 3 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Mathematics-related deletion discussions. JBL (talk) 17:31, 3 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Keep as Necrothesp says, holding an established chair (as opposed to a personal one) in Germany, a country that does not have named chairs, fulfils criterion No. 5 of WP:NPROF. Judging from the phrasing in the article, I wasn't sure whether the is the case with Niebergall, but source No. 3 explicitly states that he is the Inhaber des Lehrstuhls für Logik und Sprachphilosophie, which translates to 'holder of the chair for logic and the philosophy of language', a significant difference to just 'professor' for these subjects. Modussiccandi (talk) 20:01, 3 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.