Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Judas cradle

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Randykitty (talk) 13:16, 19 December 2018 (UTC)

Judas cradle

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Judas cradle (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log · Stats)

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I cannot find any reliable independent sources to substantiate this article. It's discussed in a lot of unreliable sources, including those currently cited and from one of which most of the current article is copied verbatim. Earlier versions are WP:OR. Guy (Help!) 17:23, 12 December 2018 (UTC)

• Keep Delete It has an entry in the Dictionary of Torture, and a fairly long treatment in A History of Torture. I will see if I can find my hardcopy of The Instruments of Torture to see if it is mentioned there. Also, it may appear in some references under another name, as it seems to have had several. PohranicniStraze (talk) 20:01, 12 December 2018 (UTC)

Dictionary of Torture - Abbot Press. "we help writers self publish books and also provide writers with self-publishing educational opportunities to improve their writing craft". Not WP:RS.

A History of Torture - Absolute Crime, a publisher of sensational pulp literature, the author, William Webb, writes fiction and has no evidence of provable expertise int he field; the book has no ISBN and cites no references. Not a WP:RS

This is exactly what I found as I tracked down every reference. It seems quite possible that this "torture device" is another 19th Century fake. A lot of the "sources" have content suspiciously similar to the Wikipedia article as it existed shortly before they were published. It is, in short, really quite difficult to find a valid academic source establishing that this is a thing - and the obsessive references to the anus and such are a dead giveaway. Guy (Help!) 20:38, 12 December 2018 (UTC)

Changed vote per above, since I haven't been able to validate its existence in other sources. PohranicniStraze (talk) 01:53, 16 December 2018 (UTC)

• Delete as a probable hoax without sufficient RS coverage. Catrìona (talk) 08:49, 13 December 2018 (UTC)
• Delete the sourcing is to notoriously unreliable sources. power~enwiki (π, ν) 04:43, 16 December 2018 (UTC)
• Comment: @JzG: I did a Google book search and found:
  • Pellens, Karl and Göran Behre. Historical consciousness and history teaching in a globalizing society. Lang, 2001. ISBN 0820453730, 9780820453736. p. 147. "[...]methods of torture, such as[...]the Judas chair, etc."
• The book is from 2001 (Wikipedia just started). It talks about a "judas chair" as an instrument of torture (that was the title I had picked for the article when I started it back then). I don't yet have definitive RSes for keeping the article per se, but this suggests that the concept of a torture device being named a "Judas chair" isn't a hoax (I am not sure, though, about the contents of this article).
• WhisperToMe (talk) 11:27, 19 December 2018 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.