Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Jubayer Salehin

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. I have not been convinced by the cases presented that this subject passes WP:GNG or WP:BASIC. Also, always good to remember the majority of the time, inclusion in Wikipedia is WP:NOTINHERITED.

Thanks everyone for participating and if you disagree with this decision please take it to Wikipedia:Deletion review - unless there is a tech issue. Thanks for assuming good faith and happy holidays! Missvain (talk) 04:10, 26 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Jubayer Salehin[edit]

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Jubayer Salehin (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log | edits since nomination)
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None of the cited sources, with the exception of #2 (my computer did not allow me to access it for security reasons) provide significant coverage of the subject. I cannot find any independent sources giving significant coverage to Salehin either. Ping আফতাবুজ্জামান, GraemeLeggett and Peacemaker67 who weighed in on the notability issue at WT:MILHIST. (t · c) buidhe 04:41, 18 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Ref#2 ([1]) gives a 6 paragraph potted biography of Saledin - but as it is published by the Defence Services Command and Staff College (Bangladesh), where he is the commanding officer, it probably doesn't count as independent, so more significant coverage in independent sources is probably needed to pass WP:GNG. There may be more coverage in Bengali-language publications.Nigel Ish (talk) 11:30, 18 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
User:Necrothesp what policy states that? Mztourist (talk) 05:45, 21 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
WP:COMMONSENSE: "Why isn't 'use common sense' an official policy? It doesn't need to be; as a fundamental principle, it is above any policy." Unfortunately sometimes sadly lacking, however. -- Necrothesp (talk) 08:18, 21 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Obviously its not WP:COMMONSENSE and we have actual policies for notability. Mztourist (talk) 15:23, 21 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I consider that it is and my opinion stands. -- Necrothesp (talk) 11:52, 22 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep. Article has been expanded since nomination and all sources taken as a whole indicate notability. Also as per argument by Necrothesp.Vinegarymass911 (talk) 03:43, 22 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep per Necrothesp, and point by Vinegarymass911 well noted. When divisional commanders or Commandants of staff colleges are not sufficiently referenced in English language sources to allow a speedy keep, we should start digging more into the foreign-language sources; our systemic bias is awful as it is. Buckshot06 (talk) 06:24, 23 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment source assessment table 1 follows:

Source assessment table:
Source Independent? Reliable? Significant coverage? Count source toward GNG?
https://www.dhakatribune.com/bangladesh/2021/01/28/rohingya-crisis-pm-hasina-pushes-for-peaceful-solution Yes Yes No Passing mention "DSCSC commandant Major General Md Jubayer Salehin also spoke at the program." ✘ No
https://dscsc.mil.bd/the-college/faculty-staff/?doing_wp_cron=1640249098.7503099441528320312500 No his minimal biography published by the Defence Services Command and Staff College ? Yes ✘ No
https://www.newagebd.net/article/95363/sylhet-cantonment-school-and-college-celebrates-1st-anniv Yes Yes No The article mentions the subject briefly, but does not offer much detail ✘ No
https://www.thedailystar.net/frontpage/news/thoughtless-acts-ruin-noble-effort-1690135 Yes Yes No Passing mention "DNCC Chief Engineer Brig Gen Jubayer Salehin said the police did not consult them before installing the poles on the footpaths. “Coordinated efforts are needed to create awareness among people to keep footpaths free for pedestrians,” he added.' ✘ No
https://www.dailyinqilab.com/article/59663/ Yes Yes No Name check only ✘ No
https://www.dhakatribune.com/bangladesh/dhaka/2019/05/18/kalshi-baunia-bypass-drain-near-completion Yes Yes No Name check only ✘ No
https://ndc.gov.bd/Page/GoverningBody No published by the Defence Services Command and Staff College Yes No listing only ✘ No
http://www.bpatc.org.bd/index.php?cGFnZWlkPTEyNA== ? listing by Bangladesh Public Administration Training Centre of its Board members Yes No listing only ✘ No
https://bup.edu.bd/regulatory_bodies/all ? listing by Bangladesh University of Professionals Yes No listing only ✘ No
https://dscsc.lk/joint-warfare-workshop-by-bangladesh-delegation/ ? debatable, published by Defence Services Command and Staff College Sri Lanka Yes No passing mention only ✘ No
This table may not be a final or consensus view; it may summarize developing consensus, or reflect assessments of a single editor. Created using {{source assess table}}.
Mztourist (talk) 09:05, 23 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment source assessment table 2 follows, there are copyvio concerns with this page:

Source assessment table:
Source Independent? Reliable? Significant coverage? Count source toward GNG?
https://www.news.lk/news/political-current-affairs/item/32772-bangladesh-s-dscsc-commandant-holds-cordial-discussions-with-the-army-chief No Sri Lankan Government official news portal publishing story provided by the Sri Lankan Army No Sri Lankan Army provided the story, so hardly objective Yes Earwig shows 62.7% possibility of CCI violation ✘ No
https://dailysomoyersomikoron.com/%e0%a6%b9%e0%a6%a0%e0%a6%be%e0%a7%8e-%e0%a6%b8%e0%a6%ab%e0%a6%b0%e0%a7%87-%e0%a6%ae%e0%a7%87%e0%a6%9c%e0%a6%b0-%e0%a6%9c%e0%a7%87%e0%a6%a8%e0%a6%be%e0%a6%b0%e0%a7%87%e0%a6%b2-%e0%a6%9c%e0%a7%81/ Yes Yes Yes the entire page seems to have been copied from this source. Because of language Earwig doesn't work on it, but given ref immediately above and fact that creator has a CCI warning on another page, copyright breach seems likely ✔ Yes
This table may not be a final or consensus view; it may summarize developing consensus, or reflect assessments of a single editor. Created using {{source assess table}}.
Mztourist (talk) 09:15, 23 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete above source analysis seems solid; subject appears to fail WP:NBASIC. I found a few more articles, but they seem to be either direct copies of the Army press statement (ref #11) or very passing along the lines of those in the first block. Given that they wouldn't establish notability in any case, I didn't check for reliability. Admittedly, my search was limited to English language sources, so it's possible that there are sufficient non-English sources to establish notability; if so, I'd be happy to change my !vote. -Ljleppan (talk) 10:30, 23 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete Single reference to suppport the article is insufficient. Fails WP:SIGCOV and WP:BASIC. Excellent source analysis provided proves this. Fails WP:V and WP:BIO scope_creepTalk 13:16, 25 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment @Buckshot06: Start now then. A suitable search term in the appropriate language would be one way of doing it. Only WP:THREE references would be probably enough to draftify it and give time to expand it out with foreign language references. Anybody up for finding three references please? scope_creepTalk 13:19, 25 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Thankyou for your note Scope Creep. Overall I disagree with the assessment of the source reliability and the assessment in the tables, but Mztourist and I have extremely, extremely, bad blood because of his complete unwillingness to incorporate North Vietnamese sources into Vietnam War articles (and a long and bitter debate, over, all things, the Defense Attache Office of the US Embassy Saigon), so I am not in a position to have this debate objectively. Honestly I am also too busy with other things - I cannot patrol, reference, fix, all military unit and formation related articles across the entire site.
However, to the point: the Bangladeshi Armed Forces' baseline language is actually English, and the BAF/BA site should be taken as reliable for simple biographical facts. That shouldn't be at issue. WP:CONTEXTMATTERS says that 'each source must be carefully weighed to judge whether it is reliable for the statement being made in the Wikipedia article and is an appropriate source for that content.' The official biography of the DSCSC commandant *must* be a reliable source -- or we have to start deleting literally *hundreds* of US military personnel articles based on U.S. Department of Defense official biographies. The fact that Salehin commanded 17th Infantry Division and is the commandant of DSCSC is basic vanilla biographical facts; nobody is likely to challenge that based upon the fact that it came from an official site.
Why are US military websites deemed reliable and Bangladeshi military websites somehow deemed unreliable? That's the core of this question. Otherwise we could start deleting US military biographies wholesale.
Kind regards to all; I regret having to mention and reawaken my bad blood with Mztourist, but it does bear on my trying to debate this issue, on this page. Buckshot06 (talk) 14:05, 25 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
And a Merry Christmas to you too User:Buckshot06! With a WP:GRUDGE like that its good you're not an Admin any more. Mztourist (talk) 15:13, 25 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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