Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/John Grubb (orthodontist)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. The consensus is that as an individual, Grubb is not notable enough (as Wikipedia defines notability) to warrant an article. There is also uncertainty about the notability of the ABO - but that's another issue, as the organisation does not have an article at the moment -- PhantomSteve/talk|contribs\ 17:43, 5 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

John Grubb (orthodontist)[edit]

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WP:N ~~and WP:V~~ concerns. The ABO claim is almost verifiable (a partial capture of the director/staff page of the ABO exists at the Internet Archive), but lacking the graphics that say "president" it's almost iffy for verifiability, and if that's really the only source, can notability be that high? Checked out the award (could find a very few references to the award in general, nothing really secondary), it's possible it's prestigous but I'd expect something more than what I saw if it was. Couldn't find evidence of notability via WP:SCHOLAR as well. But maybe I'm missing something, suggestions for additional sources welcome. j⚛e decker ^talk 23:17, 29 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Weak Keep - Perhaps those more familiar with the qualifications for academics can weigh in. This is a university newsletter so it is not helpful from a notability standpoint. However, there is no reason to doubt the accuracy of the biographical information, and in particular, it confirms that he is a fellow of the International College of Dentists which is handed out only by inviation per these citeria. He also is published, for example this article. I honestly don;t know enough to interpret Google scholar search results. -- Whpq (talk) 16:24, 30 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Academics and educators-related deletion discussions. —Whpq (talk) 17:40, 30 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Much depends on the notability of ABO. If this is a major organization, then being president of it would qualify under WP:PROF. I have done some work on the article and I have removed the info on publications (15 really is not much) and scientific talks (nothing special either). Publishing and talking is what researchers do... I do not currently have time to look at citations and such or to search for sources for the awards/fellowships (or whether those are notable themselves). --Crusio (talk) 17:59, 30 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Comment The "past directors" reference added (nice find, I'd missed that) addresses the specific issue of the verifiability of his position at the ABO, so I've struck-through the relevant portions of my nomination. --j⚛e decker ^talk 18:39, 30 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. Per WP:N. Appears to be a respected, accomplished professional. Has authored some academic papers. But none of these accomplishments individually or together are remarkable enough to pass WP:N or WP:PROF. The ABO is not a medical licensing body, but rather a voluntary professional association. Their website states "A dentist who graduates from a specialty program becomes an orthodontic specialist who is eligible to become board certified through the voluntary examination process of The American Board of Orthodontics (ABO). Involvement in the certification process is a demonstration of the orthodontist's pursuit of continued proficiency and excellence." [1]. i.e. membership/certification is voluntary, and holds no pedagogical weight; likely an organisation as much for professional networking as orthodontic excellence. Not anything wrong with that, just doesn't speak to notability. --Whoosit (talk) 21:47, 2 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Basically an orthodontist in private practice. He has been active with the certification board, including serving as its president, and he is a co-author of several journal articles [2], but I just don't see notability here. Possibly confusing issue: there may be two orthodontists named John E. Grubb, one in Chicago and one in Chula Vista, California; there's nothing to indicate which one this article is about, or whether they are the same person. --MelanieN (talk) 15:35, 3 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. If the American Board of Orthodontics had its own article, I would recommend a merge, but it doesn't. I'm not sure of that Board is notable in its own right, but there are no significant reliable secondary sources to indicate that its past president has any notability. As such, he fails Wikipedia's notability guidelines. Wikipeterproject (talk) 17:14, 3 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: would seem the American Board of Orthodontics itself should be the subject of an article? Bwrs (talk) 16:29, 5 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.